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Thread: Fire Power

  1. #31
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    I'm surprised by the reaction to the first 2 issues.

    Granted FP opened up with a bang re. the prelude but I thought these issues were a good follow up. Thoroughly enjoyed them.

    The complaints of it being "cliche"? Well sure this type of story has been told before but so has many others. Doesn't mean it can't be good. Also has it been told in a comicbook?

    Also digging the family dynamics of the series which is something not often found in comicbooks these days.

    Will definitely be reading more.
    It could indeed be good even though there are many kung fu/ wuxia comics that have been made before, variations on a theme are completely valid style of storytelling...but here it's all there is and they don't add anything new.


    Maybe if you've never seen any of the Shaw Brothers films like the 36th Chamber of Shaolin or Executioners from Shaolin, or you've never read Iron Fist or Shang Chi then this will appear brand new and exciting to you, but if you're a fan of those things then its easy to see how paper thin this latest addition is.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    It could indeed be good even though there are many kung fu/ wuxia comics that have been made before, variations on a theme are completely valid style of storytelling...but here it's all there is and they don't add anything new.


    Maybe if you've never seen any of the Shaw Brothers films like the 36th Chamber of Shaolin or Executioners from Shaolin, or you've never read Iron Fist or Shang Chi then this will appear brand new and exciting to you, but if you're a fan of those things then its easy to see how paper thin this latest addition is.
    If you'd complained about the Prelude being like these (specifically IF) then sure I'd be inclined to agree with you. Again, doesn't make it a bad story.

    Guess it's different perspectives/preferences.

    Perhaps I just have faith in Kirkman. I for one would be still reading.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    If you'd complained about the Prelude being like these (specifically IF) then sure I'd be inclined to agree with you. Again, doesn't make it a bad story.

    Guess it's different perspectives/preferences.

    Perhaps I just have faith in Kirkman. I for one would be still reading.
    With the prelude there was the hope that Kirkman was using the familiar old tropes to tell a new story, but then he just doubled down with more cliches. If he wanted to subvert the expectations of the reader there should have been hints at that already...and there hasn't been.

  4. #34

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    I thought it was a decent read. I might trade wait it instead.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    With the prelude there was the hope that Kirkman was using the familiar old tropes to tell a new story, but then he just doubled down with more cliches. If he wanted to subvert the expectations of the reader there should have been hints at that already...and there hasn't been.
    What kind of subverting of expectations were you hoping to see?

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    What kind of subverting of expectations were you hoping to see?
    That it wasn't just a cliche

  7. #37
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    That it wasn't just a cliche
    So what has happened that is a chiche and what direction would you have preferred the story to go? I ask only out of interest, just to see where you’re coming from.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    So what has happened that is a chiche and what direction would you have preferred the story to go? I ask only out of interest, just to see where you’re coming from.
    The whole origin really; the plot of an orphan seek guidance, training with all the various renown martial arts masters until he finds the super secret kung fu temple where he miraculously learns the super secret kung fu move and saves the day. Now, although cliched there was hope it could be turned into something new but instead all we got was a heavy handed mix of the Hero's Journey, suburban secrets and a treacherous mentor.

    Samnee as always is absolutely stunning but the plot is just so two dimensional.

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I think it is too early to know the story Kirkman is telling. I find already the hero becoming a suburban father not cliche and the questions of the Temple and Scorched Earth already make it interesting.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  10. #40
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    mix of the Hero's Journey, suburban secrets and a treacherous mentor.
    Hero's Journey is universal in any comic book, there is a hero, when is there not a hero's journey in an origin? I don't recall other Kung Fu stories where the protagonist ends up a suburban father with a kick ass wife? And how do you know the mentor is treacherous?
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I think it is too early to know the story Kirkman is telling. I find already the hero becoming a suburban father not cliche and the questions of the Temple and Scorched Earth already make it interesting.
    It is though,it's a plot that's been done in film and comics already. I mean, it was pretty much the go to plot for every single film used to soften the image of every action star in the 80's until today where the kids and community see the father/crazy uncle as just some boring guy but he's secretly a spy/ special ops bad ass/assassin/ alien warrior and he has to come out of retirement and blow his cover because some secret from his past is threatening his family.

    And if Kirkman wanted to show us that it was cliched on purpose and there's a larger reason he's playing with so many over used tropes then he should have at least hinted at it by now but instead the "twist" at the end was yet another cliche with the reveal the wise master is actually the big bad thus continuing to play the cliches straight rather than using them for some other narrative purpose.
    Last edited by thwhtGuardian; 08-11-2020 at 07:53 AM.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Hero's Journey is universal in any comic book, there is a hero, when is there not a hero's journey in an origin? I don't recall other Kung Fu stories where the protagonist ends up a suburban father with a kick ass wife? And how do you know the mentor is treacherous?
    Does being a kung fu hero who abandons his power to live a quiet suburban life add anything different to the trope than an action hero or super hero doing the same?
    But heck, even if it some how did(and it doesn't) there's still Jackie Chan's The Spy Next Door.

    As for the mentor turning heel, or perhaps being a heel the whole time? Well, everything else has been played straight so I don't expect the newest revelation to be anything but yet another cliched trope.

    And you can follow the traditional archetypes that Campbell codified in a Hero With a Thousand Faces without hitting your readers over the head with it, I mean this was a literal refusal of the call that didn't feel organic in any way.
    Last edited by thwhtGuardian; 08-11-2020 at 07:52 AM.

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Sounds like you want a Kung Fu book that in no way resembles any Kung Fu book or story ever done before.
    But you say you liked the GN very much, which to me was much more in the traditional Kung Fu vein than the single issues.

    I guess others like myself are fine with a book with excellent art and interesting characters with a plot full of intrigue,
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Sounds like you want a Kung Fu book that in no way resembles any Kung Fu book or story ever done before.
    But you say you liked the GN very much, which to me was much more in the traditional Kung Fu vein than the single issues.

    I guess others like myself are fine with a book with excellent art and interesting characters with a plot full of intrigue,
    I liked the GN because I felt like it must have been aiming to do something novel since it had such a cliched start...but we never got that. And I want a kung-fu book that says something new and this hasn't yet, it's just really pedestrian which is the opposite of what was promised by the interviews.

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    I liked the GN because I felt like it must have been aiming to do something novel since it had such a cliched start...but we never got that. And I want a kung-fu book that says something new and this hasn't yet, it's just really pedestrian which is the opposite of what was promised by the interviews.
    You may be right, but I think it is too early to judge. But no matter what happens from here on, you will say it is cliche. The Temple good or bad, cliche. Scorched Earth good or bad, cliche. Trains his kids or keeps his skills secret, cliche. Stays in Ohio or travels back to China, cliche. Could you give a scenario you don't think would be cliche, given the GN set up?
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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