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  1. #31
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    Knull the symbiote god.

    Watch everyone get symbiotes and they have to fight Knull.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post


    Doom didn't save the Multiverse, he just took what was left of it and turned himself into God. He then created a place for the heroes who always beat him killed themselves for all eternity, and took the family of the only man who ever tried to truly help him (Reed Richards) as his own. That's really evil, as far as I see.
    From these statements it seems you read it but didn't grasp the story. He saved the multiverse, period. End of story. If the Beyonders had succeeded everything would be gone and there'd be nothing but a void. The Illuminati were so so consumed in preventing the incursions that they never succeeded in finding out the true cause of them.

    Your second assertion makes no sense whatsoever. Who killed themselves? You talk like there were mass suicides or something. And let's not forget that Doctor Strange was complicit in this. Is he evil too?

    And Hickman explained that Doom did not take over Reed's family.. You would know that had you bothered to read the monthly summations he gave here on CBR .
    Sue and the others were killed when their life raft was destroyed

    She is his wife. I don't want there to be any confusion, and we'll get into it a little bit more, but the Susan and Johnny that we talk about in this issue are not the Marvel Universe Susan and Johnny that died in issue #1. Those people are dead and gone. This is a different Sue from a different Earth, and I'll leave it at that for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    Exactly. What Doom did was evil. Also he gets too much credit for saving the Multiverse.
    Seriously? Even Reed gave him that much credit. And let's remember what Reed's plan was....he built a two life boat crafts that would have saved maybe a hundred? He played god just as much as Doom did by picking a limited amount of people to save.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    So the perfect villain to do it is Chthon. . . he hits every team and is powerful enough to change the world himself just by showing up.
    Is Chthon still bound by the pact of noninterference that he formed with his siblings Gaea, Oshtur, and Set? I thought that was the reason why he always used a proxy whenever he acted in Gaea's domain, whether that was via the Darkhold, other lesser demons, or daemonic possession of humans. Proxies were a gray area. More direct interference would violate the pact, inviting not only the wrath of Oshtur, Set and Gaea, who are his match individually -- collectively his betters -- but also the wrath of the Demiurge and Atum/Demogorge, the latter Chthon greatly fears. I agree that Chthon in all his evil glory would be enough to get everyone off their sofas, but after the Elder Gods were done with him, would there be anything left?

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Knull the symbiote god.

    Watch everyone get symbiotes and they have to fight Knull.
    Knull might be interesting, if for no other reason than it gives us an opportunity to see how his beginning reconciles with Ewing's grand design of the origin of everything, including the existence of the sequential cosmoses. There are definitely some inconsistencies there, not the least of which being that Knull credits the Celestials with "creating the universe", which they did not do according to Ewing. I suspect that Knull came into being as a fragment of Oblivion sometime between the 6th and 7th cosmos. I mean in order for him to be a deity, he has to have worshippers. The Celestials clearly were not aligned to him, so he could not have existed in the first 3 firmaments, which tells us that he could not have witnessed the true dawn of time, or existed prior to First Firmament, unless the memory that Knull accesses is really just an echo. Those are not his memories; they are some other entity's. He was never there. Anyway, I'm really curious to see how they sort that all out.

  5. #35
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Seriously? Even Reed gave him that much credit. And let's remember what Reed's plan was....he built a two life boat crafts that would have saved maybe a hundred? He played god just as much as Doom did by picking a limited amount of people to save.
    It's been a while since I read it so I'll take your word for it. Although I know Reed came along and started everything over and did a lot better than Doom. Hell he even fixed Doom's face for him. Doom even knew that Reed came along and did it better.
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  6. #36
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    It's been a while since I read it so I'll take your word for it. Although I know Reed came along and started everything over and did a lot better than Doom. Hell he even fixed Doom's face for him. Doom even knew that Reed came along and did it better.
    Reed did a better job, but it's really an unfair comparrison. Doom actually had to figure out how to save the multiverse in the first place ... Reed just came along after the fact and improved on what Doom already did. Without Dooms initial efforts, Reed wouldn't have been able to do it at all. To make a crude parallel Doom built the house from scratch... Reed just came along after it was built and completely redecorated. Reed had a much better house in the end and gets all the credit, but Doom did like 99% of the actual work.

  7. #37
    Incredible Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Moira McTaggert
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    It's been a while since I read it so I'll take your word for it. Although I know Reed came along and started everything over and did a lot better than Doom. Hell he even fixed Doom's face for him. Doom even knew that Reed came along and did it better.
    That is true and Hickman was IMO giving both of them props. Reed's ark (which also had BP, Cyclops and Spider-Man inside) was later found intact by Alex Powers on Battleworld. It was kind of weird that their ark was buried all that time. IIRC 7 or 8 years had passed on Battleworld. Long enough for Doom and his consort to marry and have two children. But it still doesn't change the fact that when it came to saving anything Reed dropped the ball on that. He gave Doom props for giving him something to work with. I think Bendis did a good job of following up on this in Infamous Iron Man. There was an honest attempt on Doom's to improve relations with Ben to start off with. But then Slott tossed all that out with his Herald of Doom arc.

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Reed did a better job, but it's really an unfair comparison. Doom actually had to figure out how to save the multiverse in the first place ... Reed just came along after the fact and improved on what Doom already did. Without Dooms initial efforts, Reed wouldn't have been able to do it at all. To make a crude parallel Doom built the house from scratch... Reed just came along after it was built and completely redecorated. Reed had a much better house in the end and gets all the credit, but Doom did like 99% of the actual work.
    Didn't see your post until after I wrote mine. This is a good analogy. The barons were allowed to govern their respective kingdoms and God Emperor Doom would settle any disputes. And in the early issues of the series, Doom was expressing a desire to step away from it all



    And before it gets brought up again, this is an AU Susan who's father was part of that world's Fantastic Four


  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    That is true and Hickman was IMO giving both of them props. Reed's arc along with BP, Cyclops and Spider-Man was later found intact by Alex Powers on Battleworld. It was kind of weird that their ark was buried all that time. IIRC 7 or 8 years had passed on Battleworld. Long enough for Doom and his consort to marry and have two children. But it still doesn't change the fact that when it came to saving anything Reed dropped the ball on that. He gave Doom props for giving him something to work with. I think Bendis did a good job of following up on this in Infamous Iron Man. There was an honest attempt on Doom's to improve relations with Ben to start off with. But then Slott tossed all that out with his Herald of Doom arc.
    I think of that arc I hate the most is his Doom. There's nothing wrong with a cheesy version of him or even a Doom that's a bit dumb for the sake of the plot but Slott's Doom sucks and is a few years removed from where his head-space should be. It all kind of felt like he just wanted a Doom to get the FF fans onboard rather than writing a Doom that naturally progressed from point A to B. I think the only people who'd even been happy with that had been the people who disliked the character or had been starved for FF.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    I think of that arc I hate the most is his Doom. There's nothing wrong with a cheesy version of him or even a Doom that's a bit dumb for the sake of the plot but Slott's Doom sucks and is a few years removed from where his head-space should be. It all kind of felt like he just wanted a Doom to get the FF fans onboard rather than writing a Doom that naturally progressed from point A to B. I think the only people who'd even been happy with that had been the people who disliked the character or had been starved for FF.
    Yeah, I would agree with this. Instead of giving both Doom and Fantastic Four equal consideration in this post-SW/Infamous Iron Man landscape, Slott just uses Doom (who appears on most of the covers) to prop up his Fantastic Four book. Ironically,the month of March was the last time there was an issue of the Doctor Doom solo series and the Fantastic Four.... and Doom's book topped Slott's FF in the sales rankings for that month Doctor Doom #6 ranked #46 and the FF at #48 for March. And the Doom series is nominated for an Eisner.

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