I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
If I am super, how can I wait?
I had no idea this thread existed. Hurray!
So I often pondered some of the many moving pieces in DeFalco's FF, which I mostly liked.
Huntara makes sense as half sister to Reed. But to me, that is what I got from Nathaniel's story, the possibility that Kristoff is Reed's half brother. This to seems to make sense, if we believe what is given.
Defalco's era is one of favorites because it gave me all the Soapy Opera stuff I love in a comic.
~ Oberon ~
Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all
Hi IM,
Well, when I read the original 'idea' in Defalco, it seemed they were talking about Kristoff, not Doom.
But what specifically indicates this is NO, because I'm not aware of that. I'm aware of it as an unsolved/resolved plot, that probably should have been. pfffft!
I'm very fascinated with Nathaniel and what ever chain leads through Reed and possibly Kang.
But, there must be a reason, or at least 'something' for why Kang and Doom do this dance too.
I know it is horrifying, but I thought it clever, if Defalco thought of a way to make Nathaniel be Cable or so it seemed. Again, though, once you start having multiple realities and clones (Stryfe?) well. . . .
~ Oberon ~
Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all
Yes, this my thought too back then. But DeFalco muddies the waters quite a bit during that era of the FF.
Then later Sue confronts him about his "revelations" in FF #396
I think the page showing Doom and Kang discussing their possible connection from the Doom series was writer Cantwell having a little fun. He was demonstrating how confusing things are between them so that they aren't even sure
In Hickman's Fantastic Four #581-582 there was the Great Hunt which dealt with the different versions of Nathaniel. Byrne's Nathaniel was elderly and rather benign and had a devious wife named Cassandra. This version of Nathaniel didn't have the eyepiece of the Nathaniel in DeFalco's FF. I think it is significant that Hickman gives us the Great Hunt that eliminates all of the alternate versions of Nathaniel, one of which was an eyepiece like the DeFalco era Nathaniel. I think Hickman is doing some housekeeping here and cleaning up the disparity between DeFalco's Nathaniel and the Bryne Nathaniel. There is one aggressive Nathaniel that becomes known as The Beast who kills all of the other versions until only he and the Nathaniel from Hickman's run is left.
It seemed to me that one of Hickman's goals was to make the the FF characters more unique to the multiverse. One of the goals of the Councils of Reed was to eliminate or lobotomize all the Dooms they came across. Then most of the Council of Reeds members were killed off in attack on their citadel by the Mad Celestials
Last edited by Iron Maiden; 05-09-2021 at 12:23 PM.
I really appreciate your follow up. I must be old -am-, I read DeFalco but don't exactly remember that inference, Doom and Reed being brothers. So wow.
I have mixed feelings about Hickman's work with Nathaniel. But I still see that between Byrne, Defalco and him that there is enough loose ends to still provide new stories or aspects.
~ Oberon ~
Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all
I was glad that Hickman got a chance to do something with Nathaniel. I have always found it odd that we always knew more about Victor's parents then we did about Reed's. Victor obviously has much love for his father and mother even though most stories about his childhood center on Cynthia rather than Werner. It's easy to forget that in the FF annual #2 it is the death of his father that sets young Victor off and he begins to undertake a small resistance against the Latveria monach. Back then, there was little told about his mother until later in Astonishing Tales #8 which inspired the GN Triumph & Torment. Meanwhile we see very little if any mention of Reed's parents until Byrne's FF run. We still know very little about Reed's mother.
Speaking of Nathaniel, we never got closure on the Huntara situation.
Last edited by danielsan52; 05-10-2021 at 04:23 AM.
TO KNOW HER IS TO FEAR HER: JESSICA DREW THE SPIDER-WOMAN
BE SURE TO CHECK OUT THE NEW 2024 SPIDER-WOMAN SERIES by STEVE FOXE!!!
MISSING:
Synch's Aura
Northstar and Aurora's shiny hair
Spider-Woman’s cowl costume
I think once there is a change over to a new writer, they make a choice whether or not to continue with any new elements added. And it this case, you had the Fantastic Four title come to and end of what we now call volume one when Marvel allowed Image to do Heroes Reborn: Fantastic Four. So I don't find it surprising that the new creative team of Scott Lobdell & Alan Davis after Heroes Reborn was over decided to start fresh. Chris Claremont took over when Scott Lobdell left suddenly to take a job out West and he added his own touch to the FF with characters like Valeria von Doom, Lancer, Caledonia, and a few others as I recall.
I suppose Defalco's Nathaniel offered future writers too many prospects that other writers might not want to handle.
For example, we could simply say that Huntara could have been a child of the elder Richards, as well as half-sibling to Reed, aunt to Franklin, etc.
But he could also have just plucked them from somewhere in timestreams, as he did with Franklin, raising them, etc.
In some ways, NR is the anti-Reed. Or maybe the very flawed Reed. the worst things about Reed as a parent are proxied in Nathaniel.
Anyone else's take on the Defalco Nathaniel as somehow someway, Cable (eye piece and other things).
I think Defalco was possibly serious, but restrained by editors. Maybe he thought he could put enough in to force the thought, but it didn't?
If Reed's father is Cable, than Jean and Scott would be Reed's grandparents, right?
Too weird for Marvel even.
~ Oberon ~
Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all
Tom DeFalco was not just the writer for the Fantastic Four he was Editor in Chief at the time (1987-1994). It's not unusual as we know Stan Lee was EIC for many years while still writing or plotting several titles. Jim Shooter was EIC and he wrote the Secret Wars event.
While I didn't like the Nathaniel of the DeFalco era I think Hickman made the character more likeable and more trustworthy than the 1990's version. But he could also be secretive and that is a trait that Reed has too. He has held information back from the rest of the FF at times.
Last edited by Iron Maiden; 05-11-2021 at 09:14 AM.
I really liked DeFalco and Ryan's run. Like Lee and Kirby's run, theirs was a pleantyful source of threads to be mined by other writers. A lot of stuff has been carried on by further runs, and quite a lot still hasn't (and maybe never will).
Peace
Slott's heavy use of the FF family makes Nathaniel a natural for this run. If he was coming back, now would seem to be an appropriate time. Unless, of course, Hickman has SHIELD plans for him and OG Nick Fury.
I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
If I am super, how can I wait?
I haven't been following everything but it seems to me I read somewhere that Nick Fury is no longer the Watcher on the Moon or whatever. That reminds me....I don't think I ever read the conclusion of Hickman's SHIELD. It was delayed for a long time. I guess I will have to see if it is on Marvel Unlimited.
Nathaniel and Howard Stark were part of an early version of SHIELD as shown in Hickman's run. My personal desire is to see Nick advanced to one of the immortal characters like Galileo and such in Hickman's SHIELD. It's still way out there, but it makes much more sense to me than OG Nick either being the Watcher or the Watcher's muscle.
I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
If I am super, how can I wait?