What do you guys think would happen if a villain superman portrayal got popular?

[Ra-El]

Alright, let's say that evil Superman got so popular that it becomes the status quo, now what? As fans we will be even more frustrated, villains aren't allowed to win, yes, he probably will have a lot of feats, but at the end of the day some hero (probably Batman) will defeat him, time and time again. He will lose to Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman, etc. Also villains usually don't have ongoing books, Action Comics would be take over by some other character, Jon, Kara or Conner probably, the Superman comics could just be cut off, or become Jon or Conner tittle, or Kenan Kong's. Fans of a lot of Superman family characters would be happy, but us Superman fans...

[Revolutionary_Jack]

No more evil Supermen, but if we must have one, can we have an equally evil Batman to go along with him?

We did get that with Dark Knights Metal and The Batman Who Laughs who are all Evil Bruces.

I think DC's Editorial needs to put its foot down with "Evil Superman" stories in adaptations and stuff across the board. It's awful that Injustice Superman is the most successful version of the character in video games.

As it is, it's a good thing that Zack Snyder's movies poisoned that well in the mainstream and in the process made Batman a fascist so that killed off interest in "Batman with prep time" in mainstream stories as well.

[DochaDocha]

I don't think EVIL SUPERMAN! will ever become status quo, but there will always be temptation for writers to default to the unholy triad of overdone Superman stories of the past 30+ years: origin, death, and one where he ends up fighting the heroes while being on the wrong side. It's like watching Adam Dunn hit, knowing he's going to homer, walk, or strikeout, in ascending order.

[Gaius]

We did get that with Dark Knights Metal and The Batman Who Laughs who are all Evil Bruces.

I think DC's Editorial needs to put its foot down with "Evil Superman" stories in adaptations and stuff across the board. It's awful that Injustice Superman is the most successful version of the character in video games.

As it is, it's a good thing that Zack Snyder's movies poisoned that well in the mainstream and in the process made Batman a fascist so that killed off interest in "Batman with prep time" in mainstream stories as well.

Did it? The thing I most recall being complained about with BvS Batman was him killing, not the "..with prep time" nonsense.

[Agent Z]

It would be a little better than a straight up Injustice take, but it's still cut from the same cloth and involves yet another fridging of Lois to get it to happen.

Another movie of Cavill being mopey or scowling at the camera without much character development to get attached to this Superman is a pretty lousy story. Let the movie come out and sink or swim on its own merits, but I can't imagine this cut was going to redeem this specific Superman overall for the general audience. Two strikes already, at least Hawkeye was only mind controlled in his first major appearance and got more to do later, and it helps that he's a more minor character in comparison to begin with.

I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

[lotchj]

If a evil superman became popular, I can only speak for myself, I couldn't watch a movie or read a comic where superman is portrayal as becoming evil. No matter how popular it was!!

[Netherman14]

If I don’t like a take I’m under no obligation to wish it success. Sorry you can’t grasp that concept. Given Snyder’s ability to fall upwards as a white straight male in Hollywood, I think he’ll be ok.

I said he “was going to be evil”, meaning he wasn’t evil yet, important distinction there bud. Cavill was meant to be the final boss for JL along with Darkseid.

I don't like a lot of the MCU movies, and you don't see me wishing failure upon those films.

[manwhohaseverything]

No more evil Supermen

Sadly, that ain't happening. The best we can do is hope for a genuine badass villain superman.

Cavill’s Superman wasn’t well received generally because he was a little grumpy sometimes. And Brightburn didn’t exactly light up the box office. General audiences don’t like a non-heroic Superman. So I don’t think there’s much chance of it actually catching on outside of video games and a pretty niche comic.

If we’re talking like a different character within the mythos, Superboy Prime kinda already fits that. Or like the Regime Superman coming over. Kingdom Come Superman is basically a villain even within that story so it’s pretty much already happened.

If it’s the “real” Superman, it’s be received like Hydra Cap I think though. It’ll be hated by a lot of people in comics.

Last i checked without the brand power or the standard superhero affair marketing it made its money back and some profit. It had a 6mil budget and had a 7mil opening. It made 32mil world wide.It depends on what you mean by heroic superman. Moreover, why do people make these claims about general audiences. If nothing else, we know a small budget superman movie works.They can definitely make a superman movue with the joker budget. That's significant. Heck! They can go arthouse with superman ip. Do different takes.

Superboy prime is a meme. He could get popular as comic relief (i mean, superman and comedy have been divorced for a while. I miss clark being funny), not as a villain. Kingdom come superman is just a tantrum throwing farmboy and his story is another slippery slope nonsense. He isn't evil.It's like saying batman is evil because he has capacity to chose that path.

Superman being stuck as a goody two shoes boyscout farmboy would be worse for me than him being evil. It's boring. The guy feels stiff and not real.Hydra superman would atleast break that mold.

[DochaDocha]

I've wished failure upon a handful of major Hollywood blockbuster films, and I feel no shame for feeling that way (okay, maybe some). Usually, it's been because I thought a movie sent some kind of terrible message, such as how The Last Airbender is blatantly racist, IMO, and seeing it succeed would send a terrible message to Hollywood. I've also rooted against a handful of movies also for being creatively lazy. Hollywood has a bad habit of copying whatever's trendy, so if poor ideas (IMO, of course) tank, I hope it sends a message to come up with better movie ideas.

I don't think we should ever feel compelled to root for all movies to be super successful. I'm sure nobody here is actually making that claim, but I'm just being clear about the opposite end of the spectrum. But usually, the middle-class workers who work on the films don't get extra money if the movie becomes a massive blockbuster, so it's not like hoping a business fails and all these people will be unemployed as a result. How many people's ability to put food on the table and pay basic rent has ever really been at stake if a movie made $200 million worldwide instead of $1 billion? Usually, the implication ends up being one already well-to-do guy will get a smaller paycheck, or a wealthy financier's investment/gamble won't pay off.

I don't think Hollywood is a zero-sum game, but in many cases, the $13 you didn't spend on one film you end up spending on some other form of entertainment. One studio's loss is another entertainer provider's gain.

This probably sounds really petty, and like a load of rationalizing, but I just don't feel a ton of sympathy for studios when their movies tank. Maybe I feel bad for actors, directors, screenwriters, etc., but not the same as I do for small business owners. At least artists who work on these blockbuster superhero movies get paid up front.

[JAK]

I think the thing that we need to remember is that "Injustice" is a very different audience (smaller, too) than TV and films. Not that gamers don't watch TV, but it's different when taken in total.

"Evil Superman" is popular (mostly) with the crowd that Superman never attracted in the first place. And, while that is a significant number of people, it's much less than the number of people who say (on whatever level) that they "like Superman." Most who like Superman hate the idea. Not all, but most.

If it ever got truly mass appeal? I honestly don't know. I don't necessarily want to say "it'd be the end of the character," because that sounds hyperbolic, but... if it lasted for any decent length of time and WB/DC truly thought it had legs and they could make it work? That's what would happen.

We did get that with Dark Knights Metal and The Batman Who Laughs who are all Evil Bruces.

I think DC's Editorial needs to put its foot down with "Evil Superman" stories in adaptations and stuff across the board. It's awful that Injustice Superman is the most successful version of the character in video games.

As it is, it's a good thing that Zack Snyder's movies poisoned that well in the mainstream and in the process made Batman a fascist so that killed off interest in "Batman with prep time" in mainstream stories as well.

In some ways, the Snyder films came along at the "perfect" time. Had they come out around the early days of the X-Men films or DKRises, I think they would have been very well received. By the time BvS came out, though, the superhero genre's mood was turning lighter, not darker. The Flash TV show was being celebrated for it's lighter and more comics-accurate tone, and it's popularity was eclipsing "Arrow". So WB being so behind the curve, cinematically, meant that take wasn't going to get traction. At the time, I couldn't see that; I thought "the first movie with Batman and Superman together means instant sales no matter what" and "the first Justice League movie means instant sales no matter what". I hadn't counted on how much the culture was changing because we (as a society) have had a slight grimdark fetish since the 90's.

I can't say I wished the Snyder films success, because (at least as they were) I didn't. I wished they'd get (imo, ymmv) better and treat Superman (imo, ymmv) with more respect. But in hindsight, people were more decisive than I gave them credit for. They were out before Justice League even hit theaters. But it absolutely was the death (for now, at least) of several tropes that DC/WB have been drinking from for a long time now, one of them being the tease of an evil Superman.

On the Snyder Cut of JL, I actually hope it's good and I hope Snyder's fans like it and get what they want out of it. Heck, I even hope they get more content on that platform. It's not going to change the current trajectory of the DCEU, besides maybe drumming up more support for Henry - maybe. I hope for that in the same way that I hope New52 fans get to see their Superman again, and was happy for them when he showed up in Sideways.

[manwhohaseverything]

I can't say I wished the Snyder films success, because (at least as they were) I didn't. I wished they'd get (imo, ymmv) better and treat Superman (imo, ymmv) with more respect. But in hindsight, people were more decisive than I gave them credit for. They were out before Justice League even hit theaters. But it absolutely was the death (for now, at least) of several tropes that DC/WB have been drinking from for a long time now, one of them being the tease of an evil Superman.

On the Snyder Cut of JL, I actually hope it's good and I hope Snyder's fans like it and get what they want out of it. Heck, I even hope they get more content on that platform. It's not going to change the current trajectory of the DCEU, besides maybe drumming up more support for Henry - maybe. I hope for that in the same way that I hope New52 fans get to see their Superman again, and was happy for them when he showed up in Sideways.

For me, i was iffy of the theatrical cut. But, that promo material with lois made me hopeful . Then i went to theater.Just so you know, an evil Superman can be charismatic and fun as well. Villain can get more popular than heroes many a times.Many of them turn face or become antiheroes as well.Btw, i think snyder treats superman material with more respect than any other before him and those who actively write him. Yeah! I don't see anyone touching that new52 superman again.i have come to a conclusion that goldenage superman is separate version built differently. He is more of an exception to the rule. He would have built a different fanbase with different kind of expectations from the Character. Ofcourse,there were people who wanted morrison's superman to be adapted on the big screen.So,i don't know what is gonna happen. I would take that superman over anything . Even if its treated as some kind of "phase".

[JAK]

For me, i was iffy of the theatrical cut. But, that promo material with lois made me hopeful . Then i went to theater.Just so you know, an evil Superman can be charismatic and fun as well. Villain can get more popular than heroes many a times.Many of them turn face or become antiheroes as well.Btw, i think snyder treats superman material with more respect than any other before him and those who actively write him. Yeah! I don't see anyone touching that new52 superman again.i have come to a conclusion that goldenage superman is separate version built differently. He is more of an exception to the rule. He would have built a different fanbase with different kind of expectations from the Character. Ofcourse,there were people who wanted morrison's superman to be adapted on the big screen.So,i don't know what is gonna happen. I would take that superman over anything . Even if its treated as some kind of "phase".

Here's the best way I can describe it: I certainly enjoy evil characters, and mischievous characters (even to the point of cosplay - I have Deadpool/Aro/Damon Salvitore/Jack Sparrow and others.. so I do very much enjoy many types of characters). But that's not what I want out of a mainstream interpretation of Superman. I'd be fine with it, established as an alternate take (I'm fine with just about anything that way), but not if it's presented as the "current mainline Superman" of any given medium (with the exception of video games, as those aren't generally a series and even then not a recurring one). Superman is much more than a character, in many respects. No other comic character, as far as I'm aware, has a town celebration dedicated to him. It's rare, in any case. And I mention that example to show how he, on some level at least, occupies a certain space in the social psyche. Seeing that dismantled would be a severe detriment to the character, as I see that as part of (or related to a part of) his lasting appeal.

Now, that all having been said, I do also think that both the Golden Age and the more modern(ish) interpretation encapsulate connected/related but not identical parts of that - and even if modern Superman feels separate from that to you, it's not to many others - which is why takes that stray too far from it for a general audience aren't as accepted. So when you say Snyder treated the material with more respect than any other before him.... in ways that you can tick off on a piece of paper, I can see that. But in other ways, at least in my opinion (fwiw), not at all. And even though numbers don't mean correct, I'm far from alone in coming to that conclusion.

Honestly, a modern spin on the Golden Age interpretation would do extremely well. It's something I've felt so strongly about for over 15 years now, and that notion has only increased in me with time. I know it'd do well, especially now. He'd be the same catharsis he was when he first arrived. Depending on what happens with Pattinson's Batman, the "back to roots" approach they seem to be taking could lead to the same for a potential Superman for that universe - that's my hope, anyway.

[Restingvoice]

I don't know if I can count Injustice Superman because the one that's popular is the game. Among the players or digital comics readers, I don't even know if there are people who like evil Superman in the plot.

The one they like, in games, are the characters they play with friends or characters they've been waiting to show up, for example, Ivy, Swamp Thing, Red Hood, and Starfire.

In the digital comics, the one they like is characters like Harley because of her dynamic with Ollie and Dinah, Dinah herself because she came close to kill Superman, Billy Batson because he's unchanged, or Damian because they sympathize with him instead of Bruce who keeps blaming him for Dick's death.

I think people universally hate Injustice Wonder Woman though... excepting some SM/WW fans who like to take what they can get...

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't know if I can count Injustice Superman because the one that's popular is the game. Among the players or digital comics readers, I don't even know if there are people who like evil Superman in the plot.

The one they like, in games, are the characters they play with friends or characters they've been waiting to show up, for example, Ivy, Swamp Thing, Red Hood, and Starfire.

In the digital comics, the one they like is characters like Harley because of her dynamic with Ollie and Dinah, Dinah herself because she came close to kill Superman, Billy Batson because he's unchanged, or Damian because they sympathize with him instead of Bruce who keeps blaming him for Dick's death.

I think people universally hate Injustice Wonder Woman though... excepting some SM/WW fans who like to take what they can get...

Yeah! Injustice superman isn't popular. The guy just doesn't seem to the get people to empathise or root for him,in any sense. The harley thing is even more messed. She was directly part of the conspiracy that destroyed metropolis. Yet, the thrust of the story never has her blamed to the extent it emphasise on superman being a crybaby about lois. Injustice doesn't even bulid superman as a formidable villain for batman. They should have had lois be alive and metropolis going in smoke. Superman going ballistic afterwards.The sentient gun metephor is really interesting . We could have had a really kickass superman,who is actually trying albiet going totally of the rails in the process.

[JAK]

Yeah! Injustice superman isn't popular. The guy just doesn't seem to the get people to empathise or root for him,in any sense. The harley thing is even more messed. She was directly part of the conspiracy that destroyed metropolis. Yet, the thrust of the story never has her blamed to the extent it emphasise on superman being a crybaby about lois. Injustice doesn't even bulid superman as a formidable villain for batman. They should have had lois be alive and metropolis going in smoke. Superman going ballistic afterwards.The sentient gun metephor is really interesting . We could have had a really kickass superman,who is actually trying albiet going totally of the rails in the process.

You make a great point here! And although it's been brought up before, something just struck me: in that universe, Harley Quinn has a stronger will than Superman.

If that doesn't earn the game it's "Injustice" title, nothing does. lol