Re-examining the Big 2 Bat-Arcs of the 1990's.

[Comics N' Toons]

What are your overall opinions OF Batman: Knightfall and No Man's Land?

Of the 2, which is better? Which has aged better? Have they aged well at all?

Do you like them? Did you never like them?

Are they in your top 10 Bat stories or are they overrated?

[Tzigone]

I actually have not read Knightfall. No Man's Land, I did not like. I simply could not get past the premise of Bruce, and so many other heroes, just allowing this to happen for a year. Bruce saying "stay away" and them doing it. And, not being able to get past the premise, I could not evaluate on it's own merits as a story. It just irritates me every time I think about the set up. It was a hard enough sell for the country to do it, even given Lex's position, but the heroes...unacceptable. I know they had to not be there for the story to work. But for me, that's an untenable weakness in the foundation of the story.

[JBatmanFan05]

Both have aged well, I custom bound both of them. It's been nice to see DC collect them far more completely and correctly than ever before (almost perfectly).

I'd definitely say Knightfall is better than NML. It's pulpy and it's more focused and streamlined. Better art. Better moments. More iconic.

Knightfall I think is a top 10 long form Batman story or run for me. NML perhaps as well if we consider it a run (of sorts) involving many writers like with Knightfall.

[Restingvoice]

Haven't read both, but Batman refusing Superman help for No Man's Land is what's been preventing me on that story, because that's... that's a big one.

[charliehustle415]

Both have aged well, I custom bound both of them. It's been nice to see DC collect them far more completely and correctly than ever before (almost perfectly).

I'd definitely say Knightfall is better than NML. It's pulpy and it's more focused and streamlined. Better art. Better moments. More iconic.

Knightfall I think is a top 10 long form Batman story or run for me. NML perhaps as well if we consider it a run (of sorts) involving many writers like with Knightfall.

Ohh can you post some pics of NML are there some things missing in the new TPBs?

[Korath]

I haven't read Knightfall yet but I did NML and while I liked the story, I found that there was something problematic at the start and at the end : that heroes outside of the Batfam were prevented to help (which makes no sense and shows that it works better if the Batfam aren't connected to the larger Universe, kind of like in White Knight so far) and att he end Gordon losing his wife to the Joker, which I felt was unnecessarily gruesome.

[Coco Loco]

I actually have not read Knightfall. No Man's Land, I did not like. I simply could not get past the premise of Bruce, and so many other heroes, just allowing this to happen for a year. Bruce saying "stay away" and them doing it. And, not being able to get past the premise, I could not evaluate on it's own merits as a story.

Couldn’t the same criticism apply to Knightfall? Superman was dead at the time but dozens of other heroes were out there and available to help contain the Arkham escapees and/or take on Bane.

I like both events overall but Knightfall is a tighter, better constructed narrative. The core arc of NML is, IMO, exceptionally strong but there’s also a LOT of fluff needed to pad the event out over a full year. Knightfall has some superfluous parts too but not nearly as many.

[Tzigone]

Couldn’t the same criticism apply to Knightfall? Superman was dead at the time but dozens of other heroes were out there and available to help contain the Arkham escapees and/or take on Bane.

If you say so - I haven't read it. I certainly have had the same problem with some other stories.

[Comics N' Toons]

Are these stories polarizing?

I would have thought MOST Bat-fans put them up there with Year One, DKR, Long Halloween, Serious House on Serious Earth, and Killing Joke! No?

I mean, I certainly don't care for the Big Event Batman stories BUT I thought I was an anomaly.

[Tzigone]

I thought everyone else liked them, too.

[Coco Loco]

Are these stories polarizing?

I would have thought MOST Bat-fans put them up there with Year One, DKR, Long Halloween, Serious House on Serious Earth, and Killing Joke! No?

I mean, I certainly don't care for the Big Event Batman stories BUT I thought I was an anomaly.

They were both polarizing when they originally came out. NML in particular was lampooned pretty hard when it was announced.

With the benefit of historical perspective, though, I think both are pretty well-regarded.