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  1. #1
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    Post Mary Elizabeth "Betty/Bette" Kane Appreciation 2020 (Bat-Girl/Flamebird/Hawkfire

    I've loved Bette for a while and was looking into her more recent appearances and apparently she hasn't appeared in 2 years. I had hoped for her to be on the Batwoman show but they created Mary Hamilton instead. I'm currently doing a read through of Bette's essential reading. I'm up to Tales of the Teen Titans Vol 1 50.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Was the Post Crisis version of Flamebird supposed to be the niece of the head of Spyral Kathy Kane or the current Batwoman Kate Kane?

  3. #3
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    hoo boy. Kane family tree time.

    Cameron Kane is the father of Robert Kane. Cameron was one of the builders of the Gates of Gotham. Roderick Kane is the descendant of Robert Kane. Elizabeth "Betsy" Arkham was the wife of Roderick. Roderick and Betsy had Nathan, Philip, Martha, Jacob and an unnamed son. Nathan married Katrina "Luka" Netz who was using the alias Kathrine "Kathy" Webb-Kane. Nathan died at some point. Kathy was the daughter of Nazi villain, Otto Netz. She was a member of Spyral and was sent to Gotham to discover who Batman was. She fell in love with him instead. She eventually became the head of Spyral after faking her death. Philip Kane just exists, he died though. No wife or kids. Martha married Thomas Wayne and you know what happened. Jacob married a fellow military officer named Gabrielle nicknamed Gabi. He and Gabi had twin daughters, Katherine Rebecca "Kate" Kane and Elizabeth "Beth" Kane. Gabi and the twins were kidnapped in Belgium and Gabi died. Beth was presumed dead but ended up being raised to become the High Madame of the Religion of Crime. She goes by Alice as a villain and Red Alice as she reforms. Kate became Batwoman after being kicked out of the military due to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". Jacob later remarried to a woman named Catherine Hamilton. The unnamed son had a daughter named Mary Elizabeth "Bette" Kane. Pre-Crisis, she was the first Bat-Girl and Kathy's sidekick. She was also a founding member of the Titans West. Post-Crisis she was called Flamebird and was primarily a Titans character. Eventually she became Kate's sidekick until she was gutted by the Hook. She's currently at West Point and in limbo.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Was the Post Crisis version of Flamebird supposed to be the niece of the head of Spyral Kathy Kane or the current Batwoman Kate Kane?
    Simply put, Bette is the niece of Kathy and the cousin of Kate

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukiakari1203 View Post
    hoo boy. Kane family tree time.

    Cameron Kane is the father of Robert Kane. Cameron was one of the builders of the Gates of Gotham. Roderick Kane is the descendant of Robert Kane. Elizabeth "Betsy" Arkham was the wife of Roderick. Roderick and Betsy had Nathan, Philip, Martha, Jacob and an unnamed son. Nathan married Katrina "Luka" Netz who was using the alias Kathrine "Kathy" Webb-Kane. Nathan died at some point. Kathy was the daughter of Nazi villain, Otto Netz. She was a member of Spyral and was sent to Gotham to discover who Batman was. She fell in love with him instead. She eventually became the head of Spyral after faking her death. Philip Kane just exists, he died though. No wife or kids. Martha married Thomas Wayne and you know what happened. Jacob married a fellow military officer named Gabrielle nicknamed Gabi. He and Gabi had twin daughters, Katherine Rebecca "Kate" Kane and Elizabeth "Beth" Kane. Gabi and the twins were kidnapped in Belgium and Gabi died. Beth was presumed dead but ended up being raised to become the High Madame of the Religion of Crime. She goes by Alice as a villain and Red Alice as she reforms. Kate became Batwoman after being kicked out of the military due to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". Jacob later remarried to a woman named Catherine Hamilton. The unnamed son had a daughter named Mary Elizabeth "Bette" Kane. Pre-Crisis, she was the first Bat-Girl and Kathy's sidekick. She was also a founding member of the Titans West. Post-Crisis she was called Flamebird and was primarily a Titans character. Eventually she became Kate's sidekick until she was gutted by the Hook. She's currently at West Point and in limbo.
    So Cameron Kane is the 19th century generation that was alongside Alan Wayne, Catherine van Derm, Amadeus Arkham, Jonah Hex, Theodore Cobblepot, Edward Elliot, and Burton Crowne

    Wait, Elizabeth Arkham is Jeremiah's grandmother. The Waynes and Arkhams are related then?
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 07-06-2020 at 05:48 AM.

  6. #6
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    I got my data mixed up. There's an Elizabeth Kane on the tree but I don't think she's an Arkham. Before the retcon established that the Kanes and Waynes were related Martha Wayne was an Arkham by the way.

  7. #7
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    Where online can we see these family trees with the Wayne’s, Kane’s, Arkham’s and Cobblepot’s?

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Where online can we see these family trees with the Wayne’s, Kane’s, Arkham’s and Cobblepot’s?
    I don't know if there's a complete family tree... the one I know I got from various wiki where each character wiki have a list of their immediate relatives, after that, I just click and check them one by one

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Where online can we see these family trees with the Wayne’s, Kane’s, Arkham’s and Cobblepot’s?
    The DC wiki has trees for the Kanes and Waynes. The Arkham family page is a mess. Not sure about Cobblepot though

  10. #10
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    I'm considering starting a Bette Kane wiki. It would probably be similar to the excellent Stephanie Brown wiki https://stephaniebrown.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Wonder how many years before Bette makes another appearance.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Wonder how many years before Bette makes another appearance.
    Makes me sad. She is really a very strong reason why I started reading Batwoman and some of the original New 52 Bat titles. I loved her character, though mostly familiar with her as 'Flamebird', rather than Bat-girl, but having gone back and read some of the old Silver Age stories (and at 64 I'm from the era, I do sorta remember her as Bat-girl). I'm crazy and figure DC just screwed up a lot of potential cool stories. There seems like there was some reason why they wanted Bat-girl, the first to be Flamebird, to Robin's Nightwing.

    Any way, I hope she comes back. I didn't know all of that back story from Gates/Gotham storyline. I also don't know specifically where any canon says the unnamed son is Bette's father.

    I like to think that Jacob and Phillip were raised as siblings to Martha, but are really cousins (so .. . Roderick had a brother too) who were adopted, and raised as siblings.

    This would make Bruce a * 2nd cousin * to Kate and Bette. Is there an unnamed son who is Bette's father? I think that Jacob and Phillip are twins (runs in families sometimes) and they are the fathers, respectively, of Kate and Bette.
    Of course I have even stranger theories or ideas about Bette and her story.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    There seems like there was some reason why they wanted Bat-girl, the first to be Flamebird, to Robin's Nightwing.
    Maybe I'm just dim, but I honestly just thought it was because they wanted to use Betty/Bette, but Batwoman didn't exist anymore (Kate was originally the post-COIE version of her many years later, and only later did Kathy exist, right?), so she couldn't be Bat-Girl. So they just grabbed an easy name, and yes it matched the grown up Batman sidekick name for a shoutout, but I don't think there was much other meaning behind it or that it ever indicated she was intended to be prominent - don't even think she was used much the next few years (but I'm just going by dcuguide, and wiki and they may be incomplete). Of course, I may be getting mixed up on when what happened, but I'm thinking that's the status quo when she was given that identity.

    Can't say I was a huge fan of the '90s version (seen very little of it, but she was a bit of ditz and silly about several uninterested guys in what I read, and I don't care for her becoming a hero to get a guy's attention, as per Who's Who), and I think her continuity/relationship to Batwoman is a weak point (not an insurmountable one, though) once you have a Kathy and Kate. But I know I'm in the minority on preferring Kate as a non-relative of Bruce's and Kate as the new Kathy, as Bette was the new Betty. So there should not be both a Kate and Kathy, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Maybe I'm just dim, but I honestly just thought it was because they wanted to use Betty/Bette, but Batwoman didn't exist anymore (Kate was originally the post-COIE version of her many years later, and only later did Kathy exist, right?), so she couldn't be Bat-Girl. So they just grabbed an easy name, and yes it matched the grown up Batman sidekick name for a shoutout, but I don't think there was much other meaning behind it or that it ever indicated she was intended to be prominent - don't even think she was used much the next few years (but I'm just going by dcuguide, and wiki and they may be incomplete). Of course, I may be getting mixed up on when what happened, but I'm thinking that's the status quo when she was given that identity.
    No, you're right.

    Titans didn't have a lot of female members...so I guess TPTB didn't want to lose one to COIE.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I can agree with some of this. I don't think the revival '90s version of Bette as FB was intended to be prominent. But I think it is possible that some authors wanted the meme to take off, but it didn't. Some of the "look at his butt" stuff was nearly surreal.

    For me, who loves continuity even from the sillier Silver age stories, I see some value with struggling through the weird continuity.

    I'm a geek, but I see a story that would bridge this all. At any rate, I would prefer Kate and Bette to be 2nd cousins to Bruce, which would explain the lack of them in his younger continuity. I can see why some see any relation as pandering, but I think its the homage thing with the original who was named for the creator, Kane.

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