Mary Elizabeth "Betty/Bette" Kane Appreciation 2020 (Bat-Girl/Flamebird/Hawkfire

[Oberon]

It may be hated, but it is a convention of most serialized literature, whether comic or any media. Probably to help audiences 'relate' and connect parts of the plot. But most of this stuff is also highly character driven to me.

No I don't like necessarily "it's all connected" but having seen in soaps, comics, etc, the appearance of the long lost, or never mentioned fill in _______, it really just works for the medium, it elicits interest etc. (shows how old he is) So when Dynasty's Krystal walks up to "Rock Hudson" and slaps his face (season 4 or whatever cliff-hanger) you want to find out why, and of course it's because Rock's character is her niece Sammie-Jo's father, who abandoned her and Krstyal's sister long before.

MOst people want that kind of thing. I kinda dig it myself. But I don't always like 'severe' retcons, which tend to be more about plotting, but also used to explain connections to characters. Severe retcons are when some characters are found to be not dead. So Bucky is a severe retcon, but handled well and plausibly, in my opinon. Professor X not really dying waaaaay back, '60s, but in hiding - does not work so well for me.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Not a single one of those things are problems. Being Christian doesn't preclude someone from being Jewish as well, and the custody issue is extremely easy to "solve" by having Alfred be the one listed as guardian in the Waynes' wills. Even if he weren't, granting custody to the man who has helped raise that child from birth would be a no-brainer for any judge.

(I still don't know why the custody issue is something people still get hung up on, TBH)

Easy solution! Also from what we know, all 4 siblings were kinda busy. Philip was running Kane Industries, Jacob was moving around in the military. Nathan was doing god knows what and bette's parents were in California.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Also Bruce is still practicing Christianity in his childhood, following his father. He never practice Judaism.

About the guardianship, that is what happened, they gave it to Alfred because they don't trust the Phillip Kane who want to have the right for Wayne Manor. The Manor is technically Bruce's, but as long as he's under the guardianship of any Kane, then any Kane also can use the Manor, including Philip until Bruce's of age, and he can get rid of Alfred any time. Giving the right to Alfred secures him, Bruce, and the Estate, while also explains why Alfred can't go home to take care of his wife and Julia.

Bruce can be jewish by blood but christian religiously

[Tsukiakari1203]

I love the idea of Batwoman teaming with Superman, vaguely recall it, but sure I've never seen it. For what its worth, DC may have been looking for a breakout strong female character like Wonder Woman. This Batwoman didn't make it, but the idea that Betty/e could have tagged along is intriguing.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of Kate and Bette being related to Bruce, I just think for credibility sake being 2nd cousins explains some of their distance overall. I had friendships with at least 3 of my 2nd cousins. My granddaughter did with my sister's grandson; they're 2nd cousins, and they too visited each other for a couple of summers.

Comic books, like soap operas, are all ab out surprises and twists and things like connection. Every person with the same last name is more likely to be relations in both comics and soaps, so just go with it.

Since Silver Age Bette/y is in place, than so is "3 Prisoners" where the original BatFamily was exposed to possible extraterresial substances. Who better would Batman contact, if he was stymied by Bette's recovery (my theory), than Clark? Hence the opportunity for both Dick and Bette to see Kandor and hear the story of NW and FB

Well I have four aunts/uncles and I've never met one aunt's offspring. She's the black sheep of the family. I can easily see Bette's father being the Kane family black sheep

[Tsukiakari1203]

Detroit, the huge melting pot of Northern cities has a large Jewish American population. Until recently I worked at the state's 2nd largest public library, in one of the Metro area's cities with a larger Jewish population. So I worked and knew, was friends with a number of Jewish folks, including several who converted to the religion and are raising their children, etc. Conversely I know several Jewish folks by birth/tradition, who have left the religion and have become Pagan, Wiccan, Heathen, etc. So I agree

the religion thing is not defining in terms of Bruce's relationship with his cousins. I thought it was Kate's mom who was the main holder of Jewish identity and tradition , so it is easy to see that maybe that person was Jewish, but Jacob may not have been, originally and therefore Martha may not have been.

No, at Martha and Thomas's funeral, we see a menorah

[Oberon]

I take it to mean that Bruce was retconned, or at some point became Christian. Many Jewish funeral traditions have the service and burial within 24 hours or some designation, but I don't expect DC to know that nuance, and of course in the case of well known folks (Ruth Bader Ginsburg, recently) the deceased may not be buried so urgently.

[Tsukiakari1203]

I take it to mean that Bruce was retconned, or at some point became Christian. Many Jewish funeral traditions have the service and burial within 24 hours or some designation, but I don't expect DC to know that nuance, and of course in the case of well known folks (Ruth Bader Ginsburg, recently) the deceased may not be buried so urgently.

I think that Martha kept her jewish faith while Thomas raised Bruce Christian

[Oberon]

So do you think DC will write Kate out of Batwoman? When, how/soon?

[Caivu]

So do you think DC will write Kate out of Batwoman? When, how/soon?

Based on stuff I've heard others say elsewhere about how DC does synergy, I'm less worried now than I initially was.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Based on stuff I've heard others say elsewhere about how DC does synergy, I'm less worried now than I initially was.

DC synergy just means they introduce a character and then the character just kinda floats and then disappears

[Oberon]

Based on stuff I've heard others say elsewhere about how DC does synergy, I'm less worried now than I initially was.

Well as far as the CW show goes, this could be a ruse, semi ruse, before a recast Kate comes back to the show. I haven't a clue because I don't read very much in DC books or the articles and such. So my one and two best DC characters are both in limbo.

[Talonkidterror]

Not every cousin are close. Honestly while I wish dc would have bette be closer to bruce their cousin relationship makes sense so no need to retcon them into 2nd cousins or whatever. Plus do I need to point out their interaction during zero year. I swear i cracked up when Beth called bette cousin bette later on in batwoman. You just knew bette was rolling her eyes remembering when bruce called her that at the reception following their mutual uncles funeral when she went to grab both Kate and bruce so the three can go eat cake.....she did call alfreds German chocolate cake awesome which implies that she probably interact some with alfred while bruce was off training OR ALSO IMPLIED COUSIN BABYSITTING ANTICS! lol I can see bruce babysitting a young bette before he ran off to train.
Also hi tsukiakari if your the same one I know from tumblr lol nice to run into a familiar face here.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Not every cousin are close. Honestly while I wish dc would have bette be closer to bruce their cousin relationship makes sense so no need to retcon them into 2nd cousins or whatever. Plus do I need to point out their interaction during zero year. I swear i cracked up when Beth called bette cousin bette later on in batwoman. You just knew bette was rolling her eyes remembering when bruce called her that at the reception following their mutual uncles funeral when she went to grab both Kate and bruce so the three can go eat cake.....she did call alfreds German chocolate cake awesome which implies that she probably interact some with alfred while bruce was off training OR ALSO IMPLIED COUSIN BABYSITTING ANTICS! lol I can see bruce babysitting a young bette before he ran off to train.
Also hi tsukiakari if your the same one I know from tumblr lol nice to run into a familiar face here.

I am Tsukiakari1203 on tumblr! What are you over there? I'm also @tsukiakari1203 on Twitter. I did a very in-depth history of Bette there that I am super proud of. Here's the link!

[Talonkidterror]

I sent you a message on tumblr I'm the chick whose bette essay that I sent to the person doing robin musings you wanted to read. ×D I've been way busy soo lol

[Restingvoice]

I don't see any need for her identity to be uprooted.



Which makes no sense. Why would they think Jacob would do what Phillip wants? Plus Phillip wasn't even established a Kane until New 52, well after Kate was created, I don't think (I don't think he actually existed in post-COIE, just in pre-COIE). Mind you, I'm also not happy about him being switched from a good guy to a bad guy. But I guess they had to make the bulk of the family evil to justify Alfred with custody.

They established that Martha doesn't trust her side of the family. So regardless of what Jacob personally want, The Waynes probably didn't trust him enough to not sell Philip the Estate if he got the right to it. I don't think Jacob care, so I think it's just Martha not taking chances.

Kate wasn't made into Bruce's cousin until New 52 either. They officially made them family during Zero Year 2 years into New 52, which is also where the Philip Kane wanting the Wayne fortune plot started. I don't know how early they plan it, but up until the latest Batwoman story they wrote Pre-New 52 by J.H. Williams III, 2 years before, they're still not related.

Bruce can be jewish by blood but christian religiously

Yeah that's what I meant. Making him Jewish by blood doesn't affect what they established that he personally practice