Mary Elizabeth "Betty/Bette" Kane Appreciation 2020 (Bat-Girl/Flamebird/Hawkfire

[Bat-Meal]

Organ donation makes sense but the fact that just her mom came when she was on death's door is shady. Also Jacob was mistaken for her father because he visited her so much. It just reeks of bad parenting

Agreed, I remember that powerful scene where Jacob was by her bedside, telling her about Kate and Beth as kids, and telling her to fight (to survive). Also, in another scene Kate visits to tell Bette (whilst Bette is still comatose) to tell her her decision about Batman and the D.E.O.

And when Bette recovers, it was Jacob and Catherine who seem to have been the ones who were there for her, not Bette's own parents.

[Oberon]

I pretty much hate her parents and they've never even been on panel.

Agreed. I actually think that Jacob is really/secretively Bette's father. My idea that her 'father' is Jacob's twin (possibly gay, and unwilling to consummate) and so Jacob fathering her. The family secret; why they hate Bette and/or left Gotham area.

Jacob grieved/obsessed over Bette's attack by Hook, way much, in my opinion. Bette doesn't realize it, but she is Kate's half-sister. Maybe Kate senses this and is over protective because of it.

[Oberon]

It's not because of the organ donation, it's because the only time one of them is shown to exist or have anything to do with her at all was when a medical decision was required before burying her. I mean, we didn't even see them visit her in hospital or seemingly care about her life at all.

And yes, it's likely due to practical reasons of not wanting to create additional characters in a comic that is mostly about Kate - but in-universe they sure aren't winning any parent-of-the-year awards.

If the series' creators at that time had stayed, it may have been a sub plot that would have moved forward, back stories on Bette and her family.

[Oberon]

Well, it's easy to hate on people we've never seen and hardly heard about. Quite easy. I think I felt that way about Bette's parents when she was in the coma.

But, on the other hand, the idea of evil Gotham and compromised previous generations of Kane and Waynes could also be the blame.

What if Bette's parents thought that the influences of crime in and around Gotham, what happened to their sister/in law, Martha and Bruce seemingly very depressed or now 'different' they decided to leave for California and raise their child their.

But somehow Bette was always drawn to the glamour back east. She knew her uncle Nathan had married a flamboyant former circus performer and had now inherited that wealth. She knew that her cousin Bruce had a young ward near her age, who had also been in a circus show. She was already an outstanding athlete in school, but craved more.

This time of young Bat-girl probably coincided or was around the time that Kate's mother, and twin were killed/presumed killed and the horror re-affirmed in her parents may have altered their dynamic. That's why Bette ends up taking a vacation with "Aunt Kathy"?

[Tsukiakari1203]

I don't like the idea of Jacob being Bette's father. It's just unnecessary. I think the reason Betty adored Kathy so much was because Kathy actually cared about her and Betty latched too her as a mother figure and Kathy reciprocated. I think that Kathy was training Betty to join Spyral but that's just a theory

[Oberon]

It's okay if Jacob is not Bette's father; I've lived all these years with the secret shame, LOL.

But I was a medical researcher in the '90s and there were some interesting corollaries with the probability for one or both twins being gay or bi sexual, each gender.

Also, twins tend to run in families, so if Jacob was a twin, that could be why Kate is, the genetics.

Back to my previous point, I've known and considered friends a number of twins, mostly females, mostly identical. Either one is gay or I know one set of twins who are both lesbian. I know some male twins where one is gay, but not at well or as many female twins. I can only remember 1 or 2 boy/girl twins, long ago, and maybe one of them was gay, but different era so probably not so obvious.

[Tzigone]

But I was a medical researcher in the '90s and there were some interesting corollaries with the probability for one or both twins being gay or bi sexual, each gender.

I thought identical twins didn't (usually, always exceptions to every rule) run in families, and fraternal did (and would that be by mom's family since she's the one that drops the multiple eggs?)? But I read that looooong ago, so more recent data may have overturned it.

I did look into homosexuality correlation among identical twins (more for Beth, as at the time I looked I was unaware of her ever having had a love interest - though with the way she was raised after being kidnapped, any healthy relationship seemed like it would be something she'd have to work for). At the time, I saw a wide range of correlation on twins and same sex attraction from different studies. Only did a cursory search for it, though.

Anyway, opposed to Jacob being father. We have too many comics with long-lost kids showing up, and it's too much like the Jim-is-Barbara's-bio-dad-and-legal-uncle thing that most of us tried to erase from our memories.

[Tsukiakari1203]

I thought identical twins didn't (usually, always exceptions to every rule) run in families, and fraternal did (and would that be by mom's family since she's the one that drops the multiple eggs?)? But I read that looooong ago, so more recent data may have overturned it.

I did look into homosexuality correlation among identical twins (more for Beth, as at the time I looked I was unaware of her ever having had a love interest - though with the way she was raised after being kidnapped, any healthy relationship seemed like it would be something she'd have to work for). At the time, I saw a wide range of correlation on twins and same sex attraction from different studies. Only did a cursory search for it, though.

Anyway, opposed to Jacob being father. We have too many comics with long-lost kids showing up, and it's too much like the Jim-is-Barbara's-bio-dad-and-legal-uncle thing that most of tried to erase from our memories.

I hate the Jim retcon thing

I feel like Beth wouldn't form a romantic attachment to anybody courtesy of her bad history

[Tzigone]

I feel like Beth wouldn't form a romantic attachment to anybody courtesy of her bad history

Yeah, I can definitely see that. I would only want it in the abstract "sometime in the future" way in a world where she has healed. And it's a symbol of her having the normalcy and happy family that they would have denied her. In the real world, not everyone needs to be married or have kids (actually, there's some comic characters that I like that I don't want to), but those can have resonance in fiction. Like Vic Stone having a child can be a statement on the man v. machine thing. Heavy-handed, of course. But I admit these things don't really "work" the same way in American comics books, given that they are open-ended, and the story never finishes.

Of course, Beth could also have a very bad future, and that could be used for more drama. Nothing's off the table, really.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Yeah, I can definitely see that. I would only want it in the abstract "sometime in the future" way in a world where she has healed. And it's a symbol of her having the normalcy and happy family that they would have denied her. In the real world, not everyone needs to be married or have kids (actually, there's some comic characters that I like that I don't want to), but those can have resonance in fiction. Like Vic Stone having a child can be a statement on the man v. machine thing. Heavy-handed, of course. But I admit these things don't really "work" the same way in American comics books, given that they are open-ended, and the story never finishes.

Of course, Beth could also have a very bad future, and that could be used for more drama. Nothing's off the table, really.

i understand that. My preferred ending for Bette doesn't involve marriage for her, just her happy with Helena Bertinelli (and maybe Jason)

[Oberon]

Yeah, I can definitely see that. I would only want it in the abstract "sometime in the future" way in a world where she has healed. And it's a symbol of her having the normalcy and happy family that they would have denied her. In the real world, not everyone needs to be married or have kids (actually, there's some comic characters that I like that I don't want to), but those can have resonance in fiction. Like Vic Stone having a child can be a statement on the man v. machine thing. Heavy-handed, of course. But I admit these things don't really "work" the same way in American comics books, given that they are open-ended, and the story never finishes.

Of course, Beth could also have a very bad future, and that could be used for more drama. Nothing's off the table, really.

In general this is why serialized fiction of various media, are like soap operas, because much of the storyline revolves around how and why characters interact or have their relationships. So it is more common for a character to be defined, to some degree, by the relationship they are in or tend to be in.

So it is nice to see healthy characters who are secure without a relationship. Something about this strikes me as capitalistic propaganda ("you need sex appeal")

[Oberon]

I thought identical twins didn't (usually, always exceptions to every rule) run in families, and fraternal did (and would that be by mom's family since she's the one that drops the multiple eggs?)? But I read that looooong ago, so more recent data may have overturned it.

I did look into homosexuality correlation among identical twins (more for Beth, as at the time I looked I was unaware of her ever having had a love interest - though with the way she was raised after being kidnapped, any healthy relationship seemed like it would be something she'd have to work for). At the time, I saw a wide range of correlation on twins and same sex attraction from different studies. Only did a cursory search for it, though.

Anyway, opposed to Jacob being father. We have too many comics with long-lost kids showing up, and it's too much like the Jim-is-Barbara's-bio-dad-and-legal-uncle thing that most of us tried to erase from our memories.

Yes, I think that is correct. Oddly, most of the twins I know are identical female and have either/or being lesbian, so I guess I see that now too.
Twins in general are fascinating to me, whether fraternal or identical. The more I think about it, I realize I know casually even more ID twins with a gay person as one, and maybe 2 sets of twins I've known. I used to mix in a diverse crowd and coffee shop and there were at least 3 sets of ID twins I knew then (2000-2011)

[Tsukiakari1203]

Yes, I think that is correct. Oddly, most of the twins I know are identical female and have either/or being lesbian, so I guess I see that now too.
Twins in general are fascinating to me, whether fraternal or identical. The more I think about it, I realize I know casually even more ID twins with a gay person as one, and maybe 2 sets of twins I've known. I used to mix in a diverse crowd and coffee shop and there were at least 3 sets of ID twins I knew then (2000-2011)

i have two sets of twins for cousins. The older set are both straight, not sure about the younger set. Both sets are female identical twins

[Tsukiakari1203]

Screen Shot 2020-11-02 at 12.55.13 PM.jpg
source @kevinkomics on twitter

cute art piece of Betty and Kathy

[Oberon]

I'm not very conversant with the "Court of the Owls" storyline but I always thought that

Bette might have been a recruit to them, since she comes from a storied and moneyed family in Gotham, has some background with athletics, etc.

And the idea that the original Batwoman's father was devising a 'finishing school' to train young girls to be agents for his purposes is also a possible backstory

that could involved Bette.