Mary Elizabeth "Betty/Bette" Kane Appreciation 2020 (Bat-Girl/Flamebird/Hawkfire

[Tsukiakari1203]

One of my favorite Bette comics is Beast Boy #3

[Artemisfanboy]

Not in any realistic way.



It's not about either of them looking bad, though. The premise is flawed from the outset. Even if Kate were the type to pressure someone like Bette into attending West Point (and she's not), that's not something that someone can be pressured into, because the ultimate decision isn't up to the one applying. I don't see what there is to build off of here since the foundation doesn't work.

The idea would be that Bette applied, and chose to go to attend with Kate pushing/pressuring/aggressively encouraging Bette to do so, or however one would want to phrase it. While the West Point faculty would have been the ones who chose to accept her, that's not really directly relevant (though I suppose Kate or Jacob could have friends on the staff they put in a good word with).

[Tsukiakari1203]

The idea would be that Bette applied, and chose to go to attend with Kate pushing/pressuring/aggressively encouraging Bette to do so, or however one would want to phrase it. While the West Point faculty would have been the ones who chose to accept her, that's not really directly relevant (though I suppose Kate or Jacob could have friends on the staff they put in a good word with).

this makes logical sense

[Caivu]

The idea would be that Bette applied, and chose to go to attend with Kate pushing/pressuring/aggressively encouraging Bette to do so, or however one would want to phrase it.

That would be okay, but that's different than what was initially described. Bette making that choice is fine.

(though I suppose Kate or Jacob could have friends on the staff they put in a good word with).

That would be pretty out of character for both of them, as well as looking extremely bad in and of itself, as well as unrealistic. It would also undermine Bette's own abilities. If she got in, she got in on her own merits.

[Artemisfanboy]

That would be okay, but that's different than what was initially described. Bette making that choice is fine.

We really don't have much to go on. The process happened off screen and she was already at West Point at the beginning of Batwoman's Rebirth series. Other than that we just have the lunch scene in Detective.

That would be pretty out of character for both of them, as well as looking extremely bad in and of itself, as well as unrealistic. It would also undermine Bette's own abilities. If she got in, she got in on her own merits.

I agree, Bette being able to qualify on own merits is good for her (even if the actual choice to attend west point itself wasn't right).

[Tsukiakari1203]

We really don't have much to go on. The process happened off screen and she was already at West Point at the beginning of Batwoman's Rebirth series. Other than that we just have the lunch scene in Detective.





I agree, Bette being able to qualify on own merits is good for her (even if the actual choice to attend west point itself wasn't right).

west point comes to of nowhere

[Caivu]

We really don't have much to go on. The process happened off screen and she was already at West Point at the beginning of Batwoman's Rebirth series. Other than that we just have the lunch scene in Detective.

Sure, but one of the scenarios lines up with their established characters, and the other does not. The one that does is the one that most likely happened.

[Oberon]

Considering everything else that Bette has been involved with, the West Point thing seems the least, in line with that. It is the least substantial fact or relevant arc to her story/character/rationale.

Clearly the least percent of all stories with her. I mean, like several panels of the West Point stuff. It should not be reflective of Bette's character path, it only seems to be something to keep her out of the story.

The modern Batwoman starts sans a sidekick, but the issues and story-line with Bette is a big part of Kate's story. Sure not the biggest part, but really the most informed part / characterization this character has ever had. I'm sure most readers would like to at least see Bette back in Kate's story, as she was.

Or let's put the character somewhere where they would work.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Considering everything else that Bette has been involved with, the West Point thing seems the least, in line with that. It is the least substantial fact or relevant arc to her story/character/rationale.

Clearly the least percent of all stories with her. I mean, like several panels of the West Point stuff. It should not be reflective of Bette's character path, it only seems to be something to keep her out of the story.

The modern Batwoman starts sans a sidekick, but the issues and story-line with Bette is a big part of Kate's story. Sure not the biggest part, but really the most informed part / characterization this character has ever had. I'm sure most readers would like to at least see Bette back in Kate's story, as she was.

Or let's put the character somewhere where they would work.

I vote for Bette to go to Bludhaven and become Dick's partner

[Oberon]

Sadly I don't think we get to vote on this.

I'm probably not as sincerely into many of the other Bat characters, but I would think if not Kate, than somehow bringing these characters together would be the best vehicle for Bette. Again, I think editorial is just queasy about it all. They need to be sold on a solid story line that would have them working together or somehow their involvement.

Considering how Bette's story since new Batwoman doesn't really involve feelings, repressed or whatever, for Dick, that could be a plus.

I would hate to show unresolved romantic issues on her or Dick's part.

Since it is a soap opera, go for broke, I say. Dick discovers something from his past, pre-Robin, that shows a connection between his folks, or that circus and something between Bette's family of that time. Maybe a Kane's interest in that circus is connected with his folks death.

Maybe one of Kate's parents has a connection with one of Dick's (but let's not relate them, LOL)

a mystery that puts them together and each has a part of a puzzle to solve, and then they realize that this past has always connected them, and they agree to work together.

[Artemisfanboy]

Sure, but one of the scenarios lines up with their established characters, and the other does not. The one that does is the one that most likely happened.

Where was the description/first mention of her going deciding to go to West Point again?

I'm inclined to side with the lunch scene in detective being the one that lines up with their characters the most. Many of us don't see West Point as making sense for Bette, so her wanting out and to be Flamebird makes sense, as does her wanting Kate's approval. Likewise Kate's bossy and somewhat dismissive attitude towards Bette when they were talking.

[Caivu]

Where was the description/first mention of her going deciding to go to West Point again?

Nowhere. But Bette deciding something like that, thinking it will make Kate happy, is totally in line with her character. Kate pressuring Bette into military service is not in line with Kate's character. So the first is infinitely more likely.

Many of us don't see West Point as making sense for Bette,

Why not? I'm still not clear on what the reason for this is.

[Oberon]

Nowhere. But Bette deciding something like that, thinking it will make Kate happy, is totally in line with her character. Kate pressuring Bette into military service is not in line with Kate's character. So the first is infinitely more likely.



Why not? I'm still not clear on what the reason for this is.

How many other characters have this experience, in any form? A near consensus thinks it doesn't make sense and more or less betrays the character, what her choices have almost always been

and just seems to displace her from any story.

[Bat-Meal]

In the context of when this happens Kate has been busy for some months playing teacher with the Gotham Knights in Detective Comics, whilst somehow also globetrotting chasing and down The Many Arms of Death in her own solo - I doubt she'd have taken the time and have the motive to 'pressure' Bette into signing-up for military training. Story-wise it would have made the most sense for Bette to ask to be a part of the Gotham Knights, and the real reason that didn't happen is because the writers didn't want to add her to the cast.

[Artemisfanboy]

In the context of when this happens Kate has been busy for some months playing teacher with the Gotham Knights in Detective Comics, whilst somehow also globetrotting chasing and down The Many Arms of Death in her own solo - I doubt she'd have taken the time and have the motive to 'pressure' Bette into signing-up for military training. Story-wise it would have made the most sense for Bette to ask to be a part of the Gotham Knights, and the real reason that didn't happen is because the writers didn't want to add her to the cast.

Bette was already at West Point in the first issue of Rebirth Batwoman. It's the first mention of her being at West Point and all we get is "Bette called from West Point while you were out"

The entire process happened offpanel. There was no build up. Just she's now at west point.

And Bette did ask to join the Gotham Knight's as Flamebird in the the Detective issue where she had lunch with Kate. That's what we've been talking about as their last interaction. Kate refused her and blew her off saying "Stay in uniform, not in costume, and that's an order soldier."