Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46
  1. #1
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,885

    Default Is the Lizard a broken character?

    I saw this video and thought it was interesting:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l68XELY87SY

    I like the Lizard as a villain, but the video has a point, the Lizard has kinda been repeating the same story over and over again and every time someone tries to change him to give him a new story, it gets reversed. What should be done with Lizard at this point?

  2. #2
    Incredible Member xpyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    I saw this video and thought it was interesting:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l68XELY87SY

    I like the Lizard as a villain, but the video has a point, the Lizard has kinda been repeating the same story over and over again and every time someone tries to change him to give him a new story, it gets reversed. What should be done with Lizard at this point?
    I know I am probably going to be one of the few (or maybe even the only one) who says this but for as long as I have been reading Spider-Man comics, I find reading any Lizard story to be a chore. I actually really dislike the character because it always seems so repetitive. To add further, I strongly dislike Electro as well for the same reasons.

  3. #3
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    1,848

    Default

    Komodo from Avengers Initiative already proved the Lizard concept, as he currently is, was played out over a decade ago.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    2,603

    Default

    I like him.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,643

    Default

    I like the Lizard because he's one of the classic Spidey villains and he stands out amongst a lot of dudes who are just evil or douchey by being a man cursed to share a body with a monster. It's just a cool simple concept.

    But it is true that a lot of Lizard stories play out largely the same way. And because it is such a cool and simple concept, most of us have seen it done better in other stories. I mean, we do have Hulk after all.

  6. #6
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,434

    Default

    I think he's gotten more interesting over the last decade or so. Everything since Shed has been more than just the old stories retold.

    When I started reading in the 90s, he was almost a no-show! Instead we had the mindless finned Lizard, which looked cool but didn't have much else going for it.

    -Pav, who recalls the Scarlet Spider annuals with Lizard and Strongarm Armstrong...
    2020 Marvel Monthly Buys: Morbius Runaways (Giant-Sized) X-Men X-Force Marauders New Mutants Excalibur Strange Academy Agents of Wakanda
    2020 Machine Man

    Closet full of comics? Consider donating to my middle school! DM for details

  7. #7
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    I like the Lizard because he's one of the classic Spidey villains and he stands out amongst a lot of dudes who are just evil or douchey by being a man cursed to share a body with a monster. It's just a cool simple concept.

    But it is true that a lot of Lizard stories play out largely the same way. And because it is such a cool and simple concept, most of us have seen it done better in other stories. I mean, we do have Hulk after all.
    I really like Lizard. If you go through Spider-Man’s rogues gallery. Most are absolute douche bags. Carnage, Norm, Otto, Mysterio, Vulture, Kingpin, Electro, Moulin, Mr. Sinister., Kraven and Jackal to name a few, some are not quite so bad: Sandman, Morbius, Rhino and Shocker fall into that class. But not counting Felicia and Boomerang Lizard is the most sympathetic of all, and for that reason you cannot despise him in the way you can Carnage or Norm. I thought the Spencer lizard story with Pete and MJ was one of the best lizard stories ever, and added a twist to Connors and his family. I never tire of him like I do say Chameleon and especially Jackal ( who I really hate). Do you want boring and predictable? Try Jackal he always makes me think of Clone Saga.

  8. #8
    Fantastic Member Grapeweasel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    286

    Default

    Eating your kid doesn't leave much room for character development.....

  9. #9
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    1,848

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    Eating your kid doesn't leave much room for character development.....
    Just have more kids.

  10. #10
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,434

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    Eating your kid doesn't leave much room for character development.....
    It does when your son is cloned and you have to look at his face across the dinner table every day.

    -Pav, who hopes we'll continue to see the evolution of the character instead of regression...
    2020 Marvel Monthly Buys: Morbius Runaways (Giant-Sized) X-Men X-Force Marauders New Mutants Excalibur Strange Academy Agents of Wakanda
    2020 Machine Man

    Closet full of comics? Consider donating to my middle school! DM for details

  11. #11
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    9,435

    Default

    Status Quo: Imma make this character boring

    Infanticide: Not on my watch!
    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    The world has changed, and so have I.

  12. #12
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    9,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    Eating your kid doesn't leave much room for character development.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    It does when your son is cloned and you have to look at his face across the dinner table every day.

    -Pav, who hopes we'll continue to see the evolution of the character instead of regression...
    At least in spirit --- literally, since Curt went to Doctor Strange as soon as he could --- he's the same Billy that Lizard killed and ate, and as Hunted showed, Billy 2.0 is just as haunted by how he died as his father, if not more so, thanks to his "reanimation" including the dying/final memories of his original self.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  13. #13
    Fantastic Member Spidey_62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    282

    Default

    I always liked the concept of the character and his design, I think that basic story of a family man who wanted to regain a limb/help people, regains his limb but turns into a creature at the cost of his humanity is just a great concept that on the base level is appealing to fans. I think he always has kind of stagnated in the comics, though. There's not much memorable stuff that's been done with him in the books as far as stories go. I know Shed has its fans but I find the whole story horribly depressing. Martha died in the CGI comic Quality of Life, and that is actually pretty well-written by Greg Rucka. That story has a fairly interesting use of the Lizard because it's Curt sort of using the persona for vengeance against the corporation responsible for his wife's cancer. The current status quo isn't bad with Martha and Billy being alive again but having to also be reptile people, just a whole mostly happy reptile family. I like the current status quo!

    I think he had a strong outing in animation pretty often, not always but a memorable track record. What I mean is, I think a lot of fondness for the character came from being a villain that appeared in almost all of the cartoons and having strong showings in many of them, not having to be shuffled around as much as he is in the comics. The 60s cartoon had a faithful adaptation of ASM #6 minus Curt missing his arm, the 80s cartoon he was simply a one-dimensional Lizard person, the 90s cartoon had a great streamlined take on the Lizard having him be Peter's professor from the getgo already in NY- both the scary beast version and the classic talking version, the MTV cartoon had a done-in-one great creepy horror take on the Lizard complete with Connors being a shut-in guy screwed by Oscorp with the cruel twist of fate with him losing his arm again and dying as a Lizard, Spectacular had a great take using the mindless beast version combined with the mentor aspect for sympathy, the Ultimate cartoon even had a good take on the Lizard being in line with the 90s version (and having the same voice actor as Spectacular's), the 2017 cartoon had Connors being a creep and turning into a Godzilla Lizard so uh nope.

    I remember imagining all the possibilities with seeing the Lizard in a movie and being so disappointed by him in The Amazing Spider-Man movie, which I think just goes in line with the character's history on the pages. Classic villain, but never really used to his full potential, or if they do crazy things with him (eating his son/going full Lizard/revealing Connors was in control always and evil) they still don't ring true. Still think Sam Raimi could have presented an awesome live-action Lizard if he wanted to. Big naked CGI green goomba man didn't cut it on the base level, but not even having the family dynamic was just disappointing in that movie.

    My favorite Lizard stories in the comics are ASM #365, just a pretty simple story but great Bagley art and has the family connection linchpin for Connors and Peter. Spider-Man Torment by McFarlane, I know it's not much of a story at all, but I find this particular grimdark story irresistable because it's just Spidey fighting voodoo-controlled force of nature mindless beast Lizard for 5 issues. One of my personal favorites is the three issue Spider-Man: Lifeline mini-series by Fabian Nicieza and Steve Rude, that was finally mentioned in continuity for the first time in the most recent ASM story. I like that book a lot because of the Rude art, expanding on the 60s tablet story with a fun action romp and some trademark Spidey emotional weight, but Connors has a big role in that story and ultra-Lizard's out. At the end he's cured, the script doesn't mention it but Rude draws Connors regaining both arms. I could live with that being the last Lizard story in headcanon because it's mostly a happy ending for a guy caught in the middle of a bunch of other machinations. The next time we saw Connors in continuity was the Quality of Life mini-series where everything was still obviously not fine lol.

    Also count me in the Electro is boring crowd. There's a character that people often try to reinterpret. JMD did the Light The Night story and that was the most sympathetic view at him in the 616 but nobody ever really touches on the characters from that kind of view again. The Gauntlet story with him is great! That was a good reinterpretation and extrapolation from his origins finding a new place for him to be at as a character that made sense. I don't mind that he's dead though cause most of the time he's just an angry guy with electric powers. I kinda like having Francine as Electro currently, she's got a fun attitude for a villain- plus it gives Spidey another female villain- which he doesn't have a ton of.
    Last edited by Spidey_62; 07-06-2020 at 03:56 PM.

  14. #14
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    9,435

    Default

    Max is banned until he comes back with the Spectacular design.
    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    The world has changed, and so have I.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    2,037

    Default

    I liked how the 90s cartoon handled Lizard, he became Spiderman's ally, though he struggled with his animal impulses and was somewhat dangerous.

    Reading this thread, I see that a lot has changed since then. I wasn't even aware that he killed his own kid. How did that even happen?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •