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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    Default Charlton Heroes Appreciation 2021

    If there is a thread on this group of heroes, please merge this with it. I couldn't find one.

    With that out of the way, I was always curious about the Charlton staple of heroes and why some caught on, while others didn't, especially after the success of the Watchmen series. Nearly all of the men had series back in the day, some lasting longer than others, but I think the real reason Blue Beetle and Captain Atom stayed visible throughout the years is because they both had successful careers as members of the Justice League. Captain Atom was even made the leader of the Earth heroes during Invasion.

    But what about the others? Was it there looks? Was it their powers or overall aesthetic?

    I know the Question has sort of a cult status, only intensifying around the time the JLU cartoon was on. Yet Sage was killed and replaced by Renee Montaya.

    What was the reason Nightshade didn't even get a mini series? Was it because she was (gasp!) a woman? She was without question the 2nd most powerful Charlton character when DC reintroduced her after Crisis, yet she was sideline into the Suicide Squad. I didn't read that book back in the day, so I don't know how crucial her role was there. I did like her in the Shadowpact but I feel she could have been so much more.

    I know absolutely nothing of Thunderbolt (Peter Cannan) but with a quick read, he really could have given Batman a run for his money. I know he was the inspiration for Ozymandias, but why couldn't Ozymandias inspire a re-imaging of Peter, minus the mass murder and stuff.

    And how did DC lose the rights to Thunderbolt to Dynamite Comics? His costume is great over there though.

    The only thing I remember from Judomaster after crisis was seeing him in Who's Who with the All-Star Squadron. I know there's more to him than that but he has been almost a non-factor for a long time. I did like his legacy character in the Justice Society but she really didn't have much characterization because of the language barrier.

    Peacemaker just had a bad look with an ugly-ass helmet and a horrible personality, from what I remember.

    So, would you like them to form some sort of team or to have them join other more popular properties?

    Ted seem to be fine in the Terrifics. But where should Nathaniel go? For one thing, Captain Atom should go back to his classic power and not be Dr. Manhattan lite. I would like to see him on the Justice League, but I know he's not popular enough with what DC is trying to do with the title.

    What about Eve; where should she go? How about Justice League Dark? I would love to see her there but I doubt that would raise her popularity. JLD is an excellent book -- much better than the main JL title -- but it is hardly talked about. What about over in the Outsiders?

    What about Peacemaker and Judomaster -- should they stay in limbo?

    What about the Question -- should he have a backup story in Detective Comics? Should he be sucked into the Bat-verse? Would constant limited series with a great writer and moody artist enhance his profile?

    charltondc.jpg

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    This was the previous appreciation thread if you want to take a look, but I guess it was locked since appreciation threads get locked at the end of the year now:
    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...light=Charlton

  3. #3
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    I always thought Peacemaker was wasted potential. I mean, an international Punisher hunting war criminals? Hell yeah!

    Instead, we get a guy who tries to outcrazy the Comedian, sigh...

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Wasn't both the Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman part of the Charlton stable?

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I always thought Peacemaker was wasted potential. I mean, an international Punisher hunting war criminals? Hell yeah!

    Instead, we get a guy who tries to outcrazy the Comedian, sigh...
    That brings to mind killjoy, but since he’s a ditko creation, he’s probably off limits.
    Last edited by protege; 02-20-2021 at 09:49 PM.

  6. #6

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    I think they had a spotlight in Multiversity. Issue 4 was called "Pax Americana" and were using the Charlton heroes to pastiche their Watchmen counterparts. So I'd continue that in a miniseries etc.

    Other than that i don't know if their's room for a charlton hero book. Granted having them work for Spyral or another group might be interesting.

  7. #7
    Mighty Member Samm's Avatar
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    Out of all of them Blue Beetle, Captain Atom and The Question are by far the most popular of the bunch, for different reasons.

    Ted Kord is the most popular of the bunch due to him getting a spot on the JL and being paired with Booster Gold. Not only that but he was able to spawn a legacy with Jaime Reyes, who also became extremely popular. Though that last part might be a double edge sword as Jaime’s the only BB getting any outside media exposure.

    A distant second is Captain Atom, who i feel has a really awesome look and power set. He became somewhat known/popular due to being added to the JL in the comics and being able to hold his own against Superman on the animated series. He didn’t produce a legacy but he did produce a sidekick who ended up on the Teen Titans though she isn’t very popular.

    A close third, is Question mostly due to the JL animated series where he was paired with Huntress. That helped him get a cult following, especially when they made him a conspiracy theorist. He also produced a legacy in Renee Montoya, who is fairly popular.

    The others never got a push and spent most of their time in limbo. They also lack the outside media exposure the three above have gotten (or in Teds case his leagcy). Maybe this will change with The Suicide Squad sequel, since Peacemaker is being played by John Cena I believe.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Wasn't both the Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman part of the Charlton stable?
    No, that was a licensed property, based off the popular TV series (which was loosely based of the Cyborg novels) ,
    Charlton had several TV, Cartoon, and Comic Strip licensed property titles, that they did not create or own.
    And those would not transfer as part of DC's purchase/acquisition of their "Charlton stable" of characters.
    Last edited by Güicho; 07-07-2020 at 03:31 AM.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    How -did- DC lose the rights to Peter Cannon?

    His mini series from Dynamite last year was pretty dope, though!

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    How -did- DC lose the rights to Peter Cannon?

    His mini series from Dynamite last year was pretty dope, though!
    I believe Morisi (his creator) always maintained certain rights to his creation, (unlike DCs other Charlton acquisition DC never owned him outright) and if DC wasn't using him, rights would revert back to Morisi.
    So after DC Thunderbolt failed to click, they stopped publication and rights reverted to Morisi (and later his estate after he passed)
    Who (With DC showing no interest in the character) eventually licensed to Dynamite.



    Who then borrowed from Moore's Ozymandias back on to Cannon.
    even teaming him with analogs of his original Chalton members, going full cirle.


    p
    Last edited by Güicho; 07-07-2020 at 03:33 AM.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post



    I believe Morisi (his creator) always maintained certain rights to his creation, (unlike DCs other Charlton acquisition DC never owned him outright) and if DC wasn't using him, rights would revert back to Morisi.
    So after DC Tunderbolt failed to click, they stopped publication and rights reverted to Morisi (and later his estate after he passed)
    Who (With DC showing no interest in the character) eventually licensed to Dynamite.



    Who then burrowed from Moore's Ozymandias back on to Cannon.
    even teaming him with analogs of his original Chalton members, going full cirle.


    Okay ty! That clears things up. It’s DC’s loss imo, but hell, they have hundreds of characters collecting dust, they won’t miss him.

    As for the Dynamite stuff?
    That story you cited was GREAT! It was basically Cannon versus Ozymandias and it was really off the wall. I’m hoping for another go round this year.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I think the evolution of Charlton characters at DC is very interesting. One of my favorites is Blue Beetle!

    Charlton's version of Ted Kord was basically, I'm convinced, a more mature and successful version of Peter Parker. At DC he kind of started out like that, but over time his sort of inferiority complex and sardonic humor, both of which I'm keen to point out are also native to Spider-Man, sort of took over as his defining character traits, leaving Ted as a kind of joke character, best known for dicking around with Booster and stealing J'onn's Chocos (which is great to be fair) rather than for swinging around the city in his flying bug, fighting criminals and being DC's Spidey (which I think is way cooler.) For a while during the '90s, like during "Panic in the Sky" for example, sometimes artists would draw Blue Beetle in these awesome McFarlane-esque Spider-Man poses while fighting, and I really appreciated that. But by Morrison's JLA, he explicitly had to wear a girder when fighting crime because otherwise his beer belly would hang out, and in the L.A.W. series he chalks up his time-honored quips as a defense mechanism, not against danger, but against the fact that he doesn't want to be Blue Beetle in the first place, which... not exactly the evolution of the everyman hero ideal that Ditko was going for.

    I'm convinced that the way those has-been or sad sack elements of the character are, if not there because of Watchmen, than at least emphasized a lot more because of Nite Owl. I like Dan Dreiberg a lot, but to me he represents a degraded Blue Beetle - not something DC ever should have let Ted become.



    Worth noting, it actually just came out recently that DC asked Ditko to write a Blue Beetle series post-Crisis!

    Ditko even said yes and developed an outline with his longtime collaborator Robin Snyder. The plot revolved around Ted's evil Uncle Jarvis coming back as a Bond villain and trying to create a super-villain empire over the course of many issues. They faxed it into DC and heard nothing. And heard nothing. And got paid nothing for what they'd already done. They called in and asked for updates and heard nothing. Finally Ditko and Snyder went in to DC to ask what was happening in person, managed to get the money they were owed, and the execs told them, "Robin Snyder isn't welcome here any more." And that was the end of Ditko's post-Crisis Blue Beetle, which was the only time he was ever going to go back to a character he'd previously worked on!

    I sure wish that'd gone through. I haven't read a ton of post-Crisis Beetle outside of JL, but the half-dozen or so issues of his solo series I've read don't seem that memorable - not much like a Ditko book. Though to be fair, they do also still present Ted as a Hero - it's just not that notable or memorable overall, and it's easy to see why sometimes folks think that his goofy JL appearances are the main thing worth loving about him.

    In other media, the only show that's given Ted the time of day is "Batman: The Brave and the Bold," which takes quite a few cues from the Charlton years in terms of treating Ted first and foremost as a serious hero, quite on par with Batman himself, and in fact so cool and competent that it catches Batman off guard that he also loves to goof around with Booster and do funny stuff as well. In other words, it's pretty much a perfect balance, in my opinion!

    Also, I haven't read any of the Charlton Peter Cannon: Thunderbolt at all, nor any of the DC series from the '90s, but that Kieron Gillen Thunderbolt series from Dynamite is absolutely amazing, by far the best response to Watchmen I've ever read, and far and away better than Grant Morrison's Pax Americana in my personal opinion. And I loved Multiversity, too, it just couldn't stand up to Gillen's version!
    Last edited by Adekis; 07-06-2020 at 05:23 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Yeah, all things considered, these handful of good characters were all crushed under the weight of their Watchmen counterparts to one degree or another.

    Nightshade was rather lucky to escape in the Suicide Squad, all things considered

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    In other media, the only show that's given Ted the time of day is "Batman: The Brave and the Bold," which takes quite a few cues from the Charlton years in terms of treating Ted first and foremost as a serious hero, quite on par with Batman himself, and in fact so cool and competent that it catches Batman off guard that he also loves to goof around with Booster and do funny stuff as well. In other words, it's pretty much a perfect balance, in my opinion!
    That was a brilliant take on Ted. It showed an understanding of the character, paid respect to both his original and reimagined personality traits, and it worked.

  15. #15
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    I think all the Charlton properties were auctioned and sold to the highest bidders when Charlton shut down. Some people bought the rights to a single title, some people bought the rights to more. I seem to recall reading that DC buying the rights to certain Charlton characters was a gift to Dick Giordano. Dick Giordano oversaw the publishing of the characters and steered what they became at Charlton. He was working for DC when they bought the characters they have today. Doomsday +1 was published by ACG after Charlton folded, so it's a safe bet that ACG bought the rights to that.

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