Rank in strength

[The Dork Knight]

Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness.

I just consider it a sort of oddly unique situation with the Surfer and his board that doesn't analogize well to much else. And like I say, enough "we are one and this is a crucial part of my being!" junk exists out there.

I'm just gonna go ahead and address this before it gets lost amidst everything else that I dont agree with the idea of considering the board a physical part of the surfers body

Even if we go by, there having been instances when it has been treated as such, on a case by case basis, in this particular run the board was being treated as a separate entity almost

Yeah the Bosrd is a part of Surfer. It’s like a Foci or Pact device that Surfer treats as part of himself ( Yeah D&D nerd me considers Norton a Warlock, Galactus is his patron.)

Of course there's also the idea that Surfer asking his board to work with him is just his melodramatic equivalent of saying something like "feet don't fail me now!"

You're hair and your toenails are part of you, but you don't really feel pain when they're cut.

Yes but your hair and toenails do not tend to literally talk to you

https://m.imgur.com/SnrdLjZ

https://m.imgur.com/a/lf8sT

[Pendaran]

I'm just gonna go ahead and address this before it gets lost amidst everything else that I dont agree with the idea of considering the board a physical part of the surfers body

Even if we go by, there having been instances when it has been treated as such, on a case by case basis, in this particular run the board was being treated as a separate entity almost






Yes but your hair and toenails do not tend to literally talk to you

https://m.imgur.com/SnrdLjZ

https://m.imgur.com/a/lf8sT

That run was also containing the Surfer all the same noting him and the board were one, so..

It would really be more like if your hair and toenails in fact did talk to you.

Again, the Surfer and his board don't analogize well to other things, is my point.

[Pendaran]

I'm just gonna go ahead and address this before it gets lost amidst everything else

Before everything else rolls on, I would really like people to notice that the Bill showing is getting talked about in a way that does not bear out with the actual showing. I am aware Cronus did a big ol set of posts that multiquoted you, but the thing that is the central basis of all of them is not a thing that can be talked about in the way he has talked about it.

[The Dork Knight]

That run was also full of the Surfer all the same noting him and the board were one, so..

It would really be more like if your hair and toenails in fact did talk to you.

Again, the Surfer and his board don't analogize well to other things, is my point.

I agree mostly with that Surfer and the board don't analogize well with stuff. But precisely because of stuff like this and where Surfer has called it "cosmic energy"
(and recreates it and such) i disagree with the notion of it being pure mechanical strength anytime he does something with his board

[The Dork Knight]

Before everything else rolls on, I would really like people to notice that the Bill showing is getting talked about in a way that does not bear out with the actual showing. I am aware Cronus did a big ol set of posts that multiquoted you, but the thing that is the central basis of all of them is not a thing that can be talked about in the way he has talked about it.

I'm aware of that you've (and Captain Morgan and others) have agreed that that's not a pure strength showing and like the Captain said there is not really much difference in opinion where we peg Surfer physically (at less than the trivially smacking planet busters stuff)

My disagreement with you is mostly regarding the board thing. Which I suppose doesn't make as much difference as I think since it mostly relates to a feat where he has to strain to move a moon even with his "board strength"

[Pendaran]

I agree mostly with that Surfer and the board don't analogize well with stuff. But precisely because of stuff like this and where Surfer has called it "cosmic energy"
(and recreates it and such) i disagree with the notion of it being pure mechanical strength anytime he does something with his board

Okay, the thing is, even at the absolute "the board is a separate entity" (which to be clear, not my own take)? That means that feat is the Surfer being 1/2 of using a moon as a physical weapon. They're surfing it. That's a physical thing.

A wierdballs physical thing, but a physical thing.

I wouldn't call it pure mechanical strength any time he does something with his board, but that time particularly I would.

It's still pretty good thereby either way, fits in fine for what we see of the dude otherwise for fights and etc, and a general presentation idea.

[Pendaran]

I'm aware of that you've (and Captain Morgan and others) have agreed that that's not a pure strength showing and like the Captain said there is not really much difference in opinion where we peg Surfer physically (at less than the trivially smacking planet busters stuff)

My disagreement with you is mostly regarding the board thing. Which I suppose doesn't make as much difference as I think since it mostly relates to a feat where he has to strain to move a moon even with his "board strength"

The impressive thing is that he moves it and that he straight up moves it to the point where he takes it to a ramming speed, as far as it goes.

[The Dork Knight]

I don't think this analogy holds up. Not because of the nebulous "power up" from Annihilation. But because unlike Slade, Surfer actually has "can be as strong as he needs to be" sort of baked into his powerset. There is a difference between saying that someone who can amp his strength with cosmic energy and blow up planets with cosmic energy can probably amp his strength up to a similar degree, versus a mostly human guy tagging the Flash.

Slade is enhanced though. And he does somewhat worse against the adult Wally and later post crisis Flashes to indicate that hes merely at some vague levels of superspeed. But leaving aside this admittedly weak comparison

When has Surfer really "amped" his physical strength to any great degree? That image of the famous buffed up Surfer in Infinity Crusade for instance is him absorbing the energy of a star not his own cosmic power

[The Dork Knight]

Okay, the thing is, even at the absolute "the board is a separate entity" (which to be clear, not my own take)? That means that feat is the Surfer being 1/2 of using a moon as a physical weapon. They're surfing it. That's a physical thing.

A wierdballs physical thing, but a physical thing.

I wouldn't call it pure mechanical strength any time he does something with his board, but that time particularly I would.

It's still pretty good thereby either way, fits in fine for what we see of the dude otherwise for fights and etc, and a general presentation idea.

Yes but the other half in this case would be some sort of telekinesis instead of Surfers physical strength

[Pendaran]

Yes but the other half in this case would be some sort of telekinesis instead of Surfers physical strength

Okay, here's the thing ultimately.

At worst then (and again, not my take, but we're rolling with an at worst then), the Surfer's physical strength is good enough to be 1/2 of accelerating a moon into a weapon.

That's a solid class 100 showing however you slice it.

[The Dork Knight]

Okay, here's the thing ultimately.

At worst then (and again, not my take, but we're rolling with an at worst then), the Surfer's physical strength is good enough to be 1/2 of accelerating a moon into a weapon.

That's a solid class 100 showing however you slice it.

Fair enough but the point at which we are (were?) splitting hairs was if it was above or below the BRB stuff. Clearly below the kind of level where he slaps around BRB but above Thor, physically?

Idk, maybe ? Its certainly now at least comparable to stuff like the midgard serpent but again only if you count the board as representing surfers physical strength

[The Dork Knight]

since a feat for busting a planet didn't come from him until Heart of the Monster

Hulks "planet busting", even without the wishing well is unacceptable. The Dark Dimension has been noted by...ha Silver Surfer to have matter that is weaker than regular universe matter

[Pendaran]

Fair enough but the point at which we are (were?) splitting hairs was if it was above or below the BRB stuff. Clearly below the kind of level where he slaps around BRB but above Thor, physically?

Idk, maybe ? Its certainly now at least comparable to stuff like the midgard serpent but again only if you count the board as representing surfers physical strength

Which I do and all, specifically depending on the way it is being used. It's not really out of place to put the Surfer there strength wise, is my own feeling.

I mean putting the Surfer anywhere strength wise is difficult? You basically have a handful of strength showings, and then all you have to work with are fights.

But if someone were to go, for instance like you just said "he's comparable to stuff like.." I'd find that valid.

Also again the BRB stuff is not really a strength showing anyway, or even half of one, and this is starting to kill me :P

[The Dork Knight]

It should also be noted that Surfer was able to match Thanos' energy signature in Annihilation to unlock Galactus from being a cosmic level battery. Not saying he's as strong,

I dont know man. Just sounds like you are saying Surfer is as strong as Thanos with extra steps.

BRB stuff

Pen covered it

Mmm, yeah but I actually thing Wally West could've legit knocked out post Crisis Superman, so. And no, I never thought Wally West's punches actually had the impact of a white dwarf star.

The thing we are arguing upon is the fine distinction. Yes, Wally can KO Superman

That's not what he says though. He says he can one shot Superman.

Similarly, yes Surfer is a class 100. That's not I'm debating though. The question here is if he is a class 100 that can slap around planet busters casually

But I'm not pushing that. I'm saying Norrin's top end post Annihilation exceeds anything he did prior as a show of strength.

I dont see how unless you count the moon surf thing.

Yeah, but Thanos legit beat Surfer to death, and he has physically engaged Tyrant, the same guy that took on several heralds, Jack of Hearts and Gladiator...and mopped the floor with all of them.

Yes but pre annihilation. Post that, by your own argument Surfer can match Thanos' energy. So why not his strength?

[The Dork Knight]

Where's the cut-off? Somewhere over Beta Ray Bill, a legit planet buster.

Based on what

But again, I don't recall Black Adam having a power up of some sort like the Surfer did in Annihilation do you?

Why does Adam need to have one? The comparison here is that of scaling from other people's feats. You said Adam is just scaled from other people so Surfer should be too. I said no, Surfer should not as he has many more appearances and still less "independent" feats than Captain Marvel or Adam

And white Martians legitimately on a par with Wally West?

No. Again you're missing the details. They're not as fast, but fast enough to have a race around the world with people frozen in time nonetheless. Martians display genuine superspeed independent of just reacting to others. The Surfer not so much genuine super strength, independent of reacting to others

I see where you're coming from, but none of the instances you cite factor in a power up of some sort from a guy who I think everyone already believed was somewhere in the class 100 range.

What exactly has changed with his power up though. Nothing much apparently, Thanos still ignores him for instance