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Thread: Spoilers WW 758

  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    If the problem is his status as a Chosen One or Daddy Zeus, just de-Chosen him and make him clay the next reboot. Instead of Hypolitta having just Diana when she was killed in prehistory, she had a triplet. Diana, Nubia, and Jason, all clay, but Jason are shipped off Paradise Island.

    No, wait, I just realized that wouldn't work since only female souls are stored in the womb of Gaia. Nevermind.

    Jason can be the descendant of Antiope or any of the other mainland Amazons. Problem solved. He can even retain the power of Zeus now since he doesn't interfere with the Paradise Island lore anymore.

    I don't really care if he's Diana's brother or not, I just want a Wonder Boy.

  2. #47
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    If the problem is his status as a Chosen One or Daddy Zeus, just de-Chosen him and make him clay the next reboot. Instead of Hypolitta having just Diana when she was killed in prehistory, she had a triplet. Diana, Nubia, and Jason, all clay, but Jason are shipped off Paradise Island.

    No, wait, I just realized that wouldn't work since only female souls are stored in the womb of Gaia. Nevermind.

    Jason can be the descendant of Antiope or any of the other mainland Amazons. Problem solved. He can even retain the power of Zeus now since he doesn't interfere with the Paradise Island lore anymore.

    I don't really care if he's Diana's brother or not, I just want a Wonder Boy.
    Steve Orlando got it right.

    A Wonder Woman Family, outside of the Amazons, is a good idea, and it should include a superhuman male, a Mr. Wonder sort, created for use in the WW comic. George Perez gave the Amazons a big brother, in Hercules, whom, after a long penance in Hell, they forgave for his crimes against them. There is also Prince Jason, a living storm and son of Zeus, raised and trained by Argonauts and given an enchanted spear, by his mother, Queen Hippolyta. There's the once-new Olympian, Achilles, with powers, similar or identical to Diana's. How about Antiope's immortal son, Virbius Rex, Sensation's Sargon the Sorcerer ..or TV's Andros of Antares? How about a re-engineered Captain Wonder, a clone of Steve, struggling to make a life, among men?

    How about a revised Golden Age Wonder Boy?

    Perez's Hercules pledged his strength would be shared with the Amazons, whenever they needed him, and he fought beside them, in WOGs. He might have been a big brother figure for Diana, Etta and Nessie, if John Byrne had not turned him evil, though, even Byrne reformed him, before leaving the WW comic. He positioned him to be a superhuman ally to Diana, but, with seemingly no editorial control levied, Allan Heinberg changed him back into a lackluster super-villain. I think we would have a very organic, Wonder-brother figure in the Wonder Family, if editors had mandated it, and Hercules, as Perez revised him, ..seems perfect to have filled the role. With his polysexual origins in classical Greece and a reunion with fellow Argonaut, Hylas, he might even have been a success with the LGBTQA fans, ..after which a Prince Jason might never have been a consideration.

    Steve got it right. We need a Wonder Woman family that includes a superhuman brother-figure for Diana and the Amazons.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 07-10-2020 at 09:26 AM.
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  3. #48
    Mighty Member JLH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Phantom Stranger felt rather Spectre-ish to me in this issue, which is interesting as Corrgian was on Themyscira recently in the JL book. Von Gunther's redemption and the new Amazon embassy had a bit of a "been there, done that" feel to them but it's at least new ground for this continuity and hopefully doesn't get ignored going forward.

    Good luck to Orlando to try and get me to care about Jason.
    It was like Orlando was confusing the Spectre with the Phantom Stranger. I really don't like this kind of take on the Stranger, either. I prefer him less of a Spectre/Dr. Fate/Zatanna type of mystical being.

  4. #49
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    If the problem is his status as a Chosen One or Daddy Zeus, just de-Chosen him and make him clay the next reboot. Instead of Hypolitta having just Diana when she was killed in prehistory, she had a triplet. Diana, Nubia, and Jason, all clay, but Jason are shipped off Paradise Island.

    No, wait, I just realized that wouldn't work since only female souls are stored in the womb of Gaia. Nevermind.

    Jason can be the descendant of Antiope or any of the other mainland Amazons. Problem solved. He can even retain the power of Zeus now since he doesn't interfere with the Paradise Island lore anymore.

    I don't really care if he's Diana's brother or not, I just want a Wonder Boy.
    Truthfully, I don't think any Mr. Wonder, man or boy, will ever be fully accepted by our community.

    I think there are fans, like myself, who recall Andros of Antares being a very cool addition to Diana's TV family, and muse how that might have worked, in the WW comic. You might have a few, who know the classical Amazon myth gives Diana a wildman king cousin, Virbius Rex (Prince Hippolytos), and welcome his addition to the comics. We aren't, as vocal, as the nay-sayers, however; so, it is very hard to know how many of us would accept a true, male Wonder, in any form...ever.

    I think we supporters might be more vocal, if a male Wonder, first, won popularity, outside of the comic, ..like in the movies, the Justice League comic or a popular TV show. That way, the pressure on all of us to accept him would be so great, that some of the anti-wonderfellas might be persuaded to give him a chance. I think seeing our own community's refusal to accept a male Wonder, as odd and unfair, would encourage supporters to openly champion him, online.

    Let's hope Prince Jason, like so many other Wonder-characters have been in the past, is quickly snatched up by Justice League, JLD, Suicide Squad or some other comic, where writers will get rid of that god-armor and do something cool, with him!

    For the record, I think the exclusion of Wonderfellas, in the interest of protecting Diana, ..could be unwarranted. TV's Wonder Woman had a popular superhuman male companion, on the TV show, and the world did not end. Lynda Carter, as Wonder Woman, was still universally recognized, as the undisputed STAR of the show. Furthermore, Eric Luke gave us Rama, in a similar role, and responses on the old DC Comics Message Boards showed him to be very popular, at the time. There really is nothing to fear for Diana - no status to be lost, etc - from a Wonder Boy, Captain Wonder, Olympian or anything else, since this has already been done.

    That aside, I must express disappointment that Warmaster has been belled and collared, so soon. Diana, being so physical herself, needs another physical foe, other than Cheetah, with the strategic qualities of a Lex Luthor or Doctor Doom. Warmaster, with her family's historically global ambitions, seemed to be best poised to play that role.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 07-12-2020 at 05:23 AM. Reason: clarity
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  5. #50
    Lover of Wonderful Things FutureWonder's Avatar
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    I care so little about Jason that I completely forgot the details of his last appearance/introduction. Is he really Diana's twin? Ok.

    I am always annoyed at DC (and their distinguished competition) for always bending over backwards to give yet another bland white dude a solid platform to become a comic book mainstay. Wonder Woman's histiory has a plethora of female characters that should/could be established as solid supporting characters NOW before any new dude: Etta, Nubia, Donna, Julia Kapatelis, Vanessa, Phillippus, et al.

    By the way, has Diana ever met/interacted with Olympian (from Global Guardians)?



    Anyway, am I the only one who thought the art was GORGEOUS???
    Last edited by FutureWonder; 07-12-2020 at 09:59 AM.

  6. #51
    Fantastic Member SonOfBaldwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureWonder View Post
    I care so little about Jason that I completely forgot the details of his last appearance/introduction. Is he really Diana's twin? Ok.

    I am always annoyed at DC (and their distinguished competition) for always bending over backwards to give yet another bland white dude a solid platform to become a comic book mainstay. Wonder Woman's histiory has a plethora of female characters that should/could be established as solid supporting characters NOW before any new dude: Etta, Nubia, Donna, Julia Kapatelis, Vanessa, Phillippus, et al.

    By the way, has Diana ever met/interacted with Olympian (from Global Guardians)?



    Anyway, am I the only one who thought the art was GORGEOUS???
    According to Gail Simone, the management at DC was sort of obsessed with ensuring there were men/male heroic characters in the WONDER WOMAN comic, and made several attempts at a male version of her--which is why Gail created the male Amazons and their champion Achilles. Then Azzarello came along and added Zeus as the father. Then came Jason.

    The feeling at DC was that the book wasn't tapping into the male readership and needed to attract more by adding more men to the character roster.

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  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    According to Gail Simone, the management at DC was sort of obsessed with ensuring there were men/male heroic characters in the WONDER WOMAN comic, and made several attempts at a male version of her--which is why Gail created the male Amazons and their champion Achilles. Then Azzarello came along and added Zeus as the father. Then came Jason.

    The feeling at DC was that the book wasn't tapping into the male readership and needed to attract more by adding more men to the character roster.

    https://bleedingcool.com/movies/warn...-woman-origin/


    It's pathetic that most of these attempts took place while DC sidelined Diana's most iconic male supporting character: Steve Trevor. DC didn't bring Steve back full-force until Rucka's Rebirth. Instead of trying to shoe-horn new or public domain male characters into Wonder Woman, how about developing Steve or other existing male characters a little bit more. Aegeus, Angle Man, Baron Blitzkrieg, Dr. Psycho, Duke of Deception, Ed Indelicato, Egg Fu, I-Ching, Kung, Minister Blizzard, Nuclear, Red Panzer, and the White Magician would all be welcome additions IMO.
    Currently Reading: Batman: Three Jokers, Death Metal, The Flash, Hawkman, Injustice: Year Zero, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Legion of Super Heroes, Shazam, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  8. #53
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    It's pathetic that most of these attempts took place while DC sidelined Diana's most iconic male supporting character: Steve Trevor. DC didn't bring Steve back full-force until Rucka's Rebirth. Instead of trying to shoe-horn new or public domain male characters into Wonder Woman, how about developing Steve or other existing male characters a little bit more. Aegeus, Angle Man, Baron Blitzkrieg, Dr. Psycho, Duke of Deception, Ed Indelicato, Egg Fu, I-Ching, Kung, Minister Blizzard, Nuclear, Red Panzer, and the White Magician would all be welcome additions IMO.
    We should probably leave out these two (unless we're going for the Y'ggphu-Soggoth version for the former, which cuts all ties with China), but otherwise I agree.

    I kind of think they would have used Steve more at that time had continuity allowed, that's probably why they restored him ASAP once Flashpoint made it possible, but that's really no excuse for the insistence that we needed stuff like Jason and the Zeus origin.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLH View Post
    It was like Orlando was confusing the Spectre with the Phantom Stranger. I really don't like this kind of take on the Stranger, either. I prefer him less of a Spectre/Dr. Fate/Zatanna type of mystical being.
    Yeah, felt odd. Guess it fits in with his origin from the New 52 which is why he was acting different in this instance but I guess that's issue of giving him an origin in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    It's pathetic that most of these attempts took place while DC sidelined Diana's most iconic male supporting character: Steve Trevor. DC didn't bring Steve back full-force until Rucka's Rebirth. Instead of trying to shoe-horn new or public domain male characters into Wonder Woman, how about developing Steve or other existing male characters a little bit more. Aegeus, Angle Man, Baron Blitzkrieg, Dr. Psycho, Duke of Deception, Ed Indelicato, Egg Fu, I-Ching, Kung, Minister Blizzard, Nuclear, Red Panzer, and the White Magician would all be welcome additions IMO.
    Yeah, even if Steve had been removed as a love interest and aged up post-Crisis, a lot more could have been done with him in the years before Flashpoint.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    It's pathetic that most of these attempts took place while DC sidelined Diana's most iconic male supporting character: Steve Trevor. DC didn't bring Steve back full-force until Rucka's Rebirth. Instead of trying to shoe-horn new or public domain male characters into Wonder Woman, how about developing Steve or other existing male characters a little bit more. Aegeus, Angle Man, Baron Blitzkrieg, Dr. Psycho, Duke of Deception, Ed Indelicato, Egg Fu, I-Ching, Kung, Minister Blizzard, Nuclear, Red Panzer, and the White Magician would all be welcome additions IMO.
    Why did they make Steve way older than Diana in Post Crisis, anyway?

  11. #56
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Why did they make Steve way older than Diana in Post Crisis, anyway?
    To remove the possibility of romance between the two, the worst of Perez's ideas.

  12. #57
    Fantastic Member wonder39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    To remove the possibility of romance between the two, the worst of Perez's ideas.
    At the time i think it was warranted. There was littke to no love for the character at that point. I remember liking the idea at the time, but in retrospect it did some damage...

  13. #58
    Fantastic Member wonder39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    According to Gail Simone, the management at DC was sort of obsessed with ensuring there were men/male heroic characters in the WONDER WOMAN comic, and made several attempts at a male version of her--which is why Gail created the male Amazons and their champion Achilles. Then Azzarello came along and added Zeus as the father. Then came Jason.

    The feeling at DC was that the book wasn't tapping into the male readership and needed to attract more by adding more men to the character roster.

    https://bleedingcool.com/movies/warn...-woman-origin/
    Thats so infuriating.... instead of making her book the best it can be, they wanted male versions instead.

    " hey! Don't look at her! There's boy stuff here! She has a brother! She has a father! There's a whole island of men and their version of her! Just don't look at the title of the book and buy it! We promise as little icky girl stuff as possible!"

    This makes all of this Jason and Zeus garbage even more infuriating.....

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I still don't mind Zeus as her father, and originally saw potential in a supporting brother character, but that's all definitely the wrong motivation for doing any of it. As a male fan of Wonder Woman, I didn't need any of those things to be a fan of hers. It didn't bring me in. She did.
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  15. #60
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder39 View Post
    At the time i think it was warranted. There was littke to no love for the character at that point. I remember liking the idea at the time, but in retrospect it did some damage...
    I don't think there was ever any reason to age him up. If he didn't want to write the romance then...just don't write the romance.

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