Spoilers WW 758

[Koriand'r]

I have to disagree with you. Steve has been present in Diana’s comic throughout most of rebirth. He’s not in the comic at the moment because he’s leading the team in the checkmate Levithian comic book. But he’s still first and foremost a character in her book.

While true he agrees with Diana in most things. What would she do with someone who has a different approach to violence like Wolverine?

[Nyssane]

DC's been trying to add a superpowered male companion for Diana for decades: Hermes, Hercules, Rama, Achilles, Orion...None of them stuck around. And Jason won't either. Maybe it's time to give up on the idea and develop the existing characters instead?

Ferdinand has been pretty successful as far as I've seen.

I'm also a fan of Hermes in Azz's run.

[Agent Z]

Do we though? When was the last time Artemis was in WW? How long before then? I'm talking about a character who gives a decidedly male perspective. He doesn't have to be as obnoxious as an Orion, a Lennox with a dissenting opinion would do.

You were talking about an ideological contrast to Diana not a decidedly male perspective. Diana's contrast doesn't have to be of the opposite sex.

That's what makes it unexpected and also get attention. lol

Jason was that and look how he turned out. A heterosexual male character is not a unique idea not even in Wonder Woman.

[Psy-lock]

Ferdinand has been pretty successful as far as I've seen

He's not really an action hero though. I'm talking about characters who were meant to be equals to Diana.

One thing that always puzzled me is why DC never tried to add the original Olympian (Aristides Demetrios) into the WW book. An established character, Greek, with connections to the gods...Seems like such a no-brainer.

[Mel Dyer]

He's not really an action hero though. I'm talking about characters who were meant to be equals to Diana.

One thing that always puzzled me is why DC never tried to add the original Olympian (Aristides Demetrios) into the WW book. An established character, Greek, with connections to the gods...Seems like such a no-brainer.

Does seem like a no-brainer, doesn't it?

I think James was setting that up, but didn't get around to finishing the story of his succession, ..assuming the mantle of the Olympian. Jason's origin shows him donning a mask to help out an over-powered and seemingly aging Aristides (the current Olympian), with a bank robbery. There's also all those Argonaut Easter eggs, in his origin...big, black ram's head on his chest. I think this was going to happen, ..just like it was going to happen, with the last would-be Olympian, Achilles the Warkiller.

Egads, ..how many times will we cast a brother-figure for Diana?

[VonHammersmark]

Do we though? When was the last time Artemis was in WW? How long before then? I'm talking about a character who gives a decidedly male perspective. He doesn't have to be as obnoxious as an Orion, a Lennox with a dissenting opinion would do.

Was Orion really THAT obnoxious though? the man was tactless and full of bluster which was later shown to be a form of masculine overcompensation but deep down his heart was in the right place, he was a good friend to Milan and put his life on the line to fight alongside Wonder Woman

Yet for some WW fans, he’s more worthy of contempt and less deserving of forgiveness than the woman who murdered Diana’s half-siblings, turned her mother to stone and her sisters into snakes

[SiegePerilous02]

Was Orion really THAT obnoxious though? the man was tactless and full of bluster which was later shown to be a form of masculine overcompensation but deep down his heart was in the right place, he was a good friend to Milan and put his life on the line to fight alongside Wonder Woman

Yet for some WW fans, he’s more worthy of contempt and less deserving of forgiveness than the woman who murdered Diana’s half-siblings, turned her mother to stone and her sisters into snakes

In-universe, it makes just as much sense for Diana to see the good in Orion and befriend him as it is with Hera.
Out of universe, Hera is actually interesting while Orion is a bunch of annoying played out tropes. I think that's generally why he's more hated than Hera.

[Mel Dyer]

Was Orion really THAT obnoxious though? the man was tactless and full of bluster which was later shown to be a form of masculine overcompensation but deep down his heart was in the right place, he was a good friend to Milan and put his life on the line to fight alongside Wonder Woman

Yet for some WW fans, he’s more worthy of contempt and less deserving of forgiveness than the woman who murdered Diana’s half-siblings, turned her mother to stone and her sisters into snakes

Orion, possibly the best written male companion Diana has ever had, ..is held in significantly more contempt, because he's a man or male (god), ..and the 'lock-out-the-men-cause-we're-all-bad' fan pulse. It's just anger at men and archaic expressions of masculinity, like going out in a pandemic for groceries, to spare the women in your family, AND fixing things...that kind of everyday evil - that's all it's about.

Orion, Prince Jason, heroic Perez Hercules, everybody, but, the offspring of Superman the Fantasy Lover - they've all got it coming, because...[Koff, koff, MISANDRY] they're bad? Even Mister Genie...

They're bad, ..I guess. Lock them out?

Of Superman, Rama, Andros of Antares and Steve Trevor, Trevor is the only human male to be accepted, by our fan community. I don't think Steve Trevor behaves, like any normal, straight, human male, I have ever seen - to be fair, most fictional males do not. The others might be called heavenly men, like the 'heavenly woman' in Johnson's book, as they are next to perfect, offer only support and encouragement, without any significant challenge or failure for women to forgive or consider. Just thought I'd add this for our consideration...

[Koriand'r]

Was Orion really THAT obnoxious though? the man was tactless and full of bluster which was later shown to be a form of masculine overcompensation but deep down his heart was in the right place, he was a good friend to Milan and put his life on the line to fight alongside Wonder Woman

Yet for some WW fans, he’s more worthy of contempt and less deserving of forgiveness than the woman who murdered Diana’s half-siblings, turned her mother to stone and her sisters into snakes

Hera was actively trying to do better. Orion did this...

ORION.jpg

[Koriand'r]

You were talking about an ideological contrast to Diana not a decidedly male perspective. Diana's contrast doesn't have to be of the opposite sex.

It does if the ideological contrast concerned the gender politics that Wonder Woman is known to challenge. Sorry I inferred what I meant when talking about Hunter, Wolverine and Orion, but I should have spelled it out for you.

Jason was that and look how he turned out. A heterosexual male character is not a unique idea not even in Wonder Woman.

It is if he's another superhero under her brand of characters that's embraced by readers and sticks around for awhile.

[VonHammersmark]

Orion, possibly the best written male companion Diana has ever had, ..is held in significantly more contempt, because he's a man or male (god), ..and the 'lock-out-the-men-cause-we're-all-bad' fan pulse. It's just anger at men and archaic expressions of masculinity, like going out in a pandemic for groceries, to spare the women in your family, AND fixing things...that kind of everyday evil - that's all it's about.

Orion, Prince Jason, heroic Perez Hercules, everybody, but, the offspring of Superman the Fantasy Lover - they've all got it coming, because...[Koff, koff, MISANDRY] they're bad? Even Mister Genie...

They're bad, ..I guess. Lock them out?

Of Superman, Rama, Andros of Antares and Steve Trevor, Trevor is the only human male to be accepted, by our fan community. I don't think Steve Trevor behaves, like any normal, straight, human male, I have ever seen - to be fair, most fictional males do not. The others might be called heavenly men, like the 'heavenly woman' in Johnson's book, as they are next to perfect, offer only support and encouragement, without any significant challenge or failure for women to forgive or consider. Just thought I'd add this for our consideration...

Yeah they hate him because he’s a man who behaved inappropriately towards Diana, a cardinal sin for which there’s no forgiveness in the current culture. And what’s even worse is that she kissed and almost hooked up with that “misogynistic” monster. Needless to say, that didn’t go down very well

Jason on the other hand is a catastrophically bad character both conceptually and execution-wise imo so I understand the hostility towards him. He was better left forgotten

[Mel Dyer]

...Jason on the other hand is a catastrophically bad character both conceptually and execution-wise imo so I understand the hostility towards him. He was better left forgotten

Presently, I don't see Prince Jason being more problematic, than having Power Girl and the Huntress flapping around the DC Universe. I'd love to see Jason in a story, with those ladies, ..minus that ridiculous, Prince Of Persia armor.

The current Olympian, Aristides Demetrios, is presently an Ultramarine Corps officer. So, what if Steve Orlando or some other writer makes Prince Jason the NEW Olympian? He's a male Wonder from a parallel universe - no blood connection to Diana - and, like the rest of that team, ..you'll probably never see him (that much). He'll be somewhere, that Diana isn't, doing things, with characters, whom most WW readers don't care about, gaining popularity or failing miserably, ..depending on whoever is writing him.

So, what is the big deal, folks? Prince Jason is back, and the Purple Ray is still ..purple. You're going to be okay.

The Amazons have an embassy, on its own ISLAND, now. Isn't that a big deal? What about that?

[Gaius]

The current Olympian, Aristides Demetrios, is presently an Ultramarine Corps officer. So, what if Steve Orlando or some other writer makes Prince Jason the NEW Olympian? He's a male Wonder from a parallel universe - no blood connection to Diana - and, like the rest of that team, ..you'll probably never see him (that much). He'll be somewhere, that Diana isn't, doing things, with characters, whom most WW readers don't care about, gaining popularity or failing miserably, ..depending on whoever is writing him.

So, what is the big deal, folks? Prince Jason is back, and the Purple Ray is still ..purple. You're going to be okay.

The Amazons have an embassy, on its own ISLAND, now. Isn't that a big deal? What about that?

Because even ignoring his conceptual problems he's largely an uninteresting character whose main character arc has been failing upwards.

[Mel Dyer]

Because even ignoring his conceptual problems he's largely an uninteresting character whose main character arc has been failing upwards.

That's what I'm talking about.

Being so bad off, we shouldn't care, if some genius writer tweaks Jason's origin, adding training on Thalarion or in the Greek Navy, wherever - makes him moderately or very popular, with non-WW readers. He's failing upwards. He's a bad idea. Silly costume, with powers that don't make any sense! He's a dude...all of it. Unless you want him to succeed, why should we care that he's out there?

I think the Embassy island (saying 'island embassy' might confuse) promises or invites writers to focus on Wonder Woman's family, with-OUT, and this is very important, ..setting a story, on Paradise Island.

[Dr. Poison]

Hera was actively trying to do better. Orion did this...

ORION.jpg

I think Jack Kirby would be sick if he was still around to read Orion's portrayal in Azzarello's run. We don't need any more toxic masculinity garbage in this title anymore so hopefully Maxwell Lord isn't written like a pig.