Was Emphasizing Joker's Violent Psychopathy a Bad Idea?

[Timothy Hunter]

Dennis O'Neill returning the Joker to his murderous roots with "The Joker's 5 Way Revenge" in Batman 251 probably made the character remain relevant throughout the 80s, 90s, and 00s as comic books increasingly became more "dark and gritty". However I don't think keeping with this creative decision makes sense from a narrative standpoint. The Joker has killed so many people at this point in the comics that one has to question why he hasn't been given the death penalty* or killed by a rogue police officer of vigilante.

When it comes to the Joker I much prefer the eccentric "Clown Prince of Crime" to the mass murdering psychopath take on him. It goes to show that the more "dark" direction isn't always the one that's more believable.

[dreyga2000]

Nah, I don’t think so.

I think the real bad idea is allowing the Joker to be arrested constantly. If he was one of those bad guys that always managed to escape or was seemingly killed (but mysteriously surviving) as opposed to constantly being captured and being arrested then it fix all the plot holes about him not being executed.

My solution recon it so that Batman has only capture he Joker once or twice. And the Joker managed to escape just before his execution. And one of those escapes was due to Harley

[Alan2099]

Dennis O'Neill returning the Joker to his murderous roots with "The Joker's 5 Way Revenge" in Batman 251 probably made the character remain relevant throughout the 80s, 90s, and 00s as comic books increasingly became more "dark and gritty". However I don't think keeping with this creative decision makes sense from a narrative standpoint. The Joker has killed so many people at this point in the comics that one has to question why he hasn't been given the death penalty* or killed by a rogue police officer of vigilante.

When it comes to the Joker I much prefer the eccentric "Clown Prince of Crime" to the mass murdering psychopath take on him. It goes to show that the more "dark" direction isn't always the one that's more believable.

Joke has a lot of problems. Him being violent isn't even the worst of them.

It used to be that Joker loved one person, The Joker. He was an egomaniac that was loved the spotlight. He loved to stick his face on his car and his gadgets. His crimes were often to show that HE was the best. He wasn't in love with Batman. Batman was stealing his spotlight.

Also, Joker didn't spend so much time trying to prove his point to everyone. The world is madness, one bad day, yada yada. Joker used to just think it was really funny to tie people onto a giant birthday cake and use them as candles. If you didn't think that was funny, that's your problem. He wasn't going to stand there and lecture you.

Then there's the deal with "super sanity" and how he remembers his origin different ways. That's just an excuse for writers to not have to bother giving him any actual personality. Yeah, just do whatever. It'll work.

The bloodbath stuff is a problem too, just not the main one.

[Frontier]

I'm not against the Joker killing a lot of people but I feel like it's gotten a little egregious lately, and has kind of overshadowed other bits of his character.

[Gaius]

Hmm, Joker should have a danger aspect to him but I prefer the versions of the character where he's more just a wannabe gangster/thug with a clown motif.

I think the massive and ridiculous body counts are more a result of the "agent or embodiment of chaos" nonsense that has made him a far more obnoxious and unbearable character.

[T'Challa Bruce Von Doom]

The Joker has killed so many people at this point in the comics that one has to question why he hasn't been given the death penalty* or killed by a rogue police officer of vigilante.

The Joker is a popular character which is the property of DC Comics. DC Comics is a business. A business is not going to get rid of a commodity that makes money, as the point of a business is to make money.

I'm not sure why one would ask a question the answer to which is self-evident.

[Jim Kelly]

There are different iterations of the Joker, so D.C. doesn't have to stick with the mass murderer. The original Joker and the one in the "5 Way Revenge" was a guy on a vendetta against specific people. So the Batman could figure out who were the targets and try to protect them from the Joker's revenge scheme. That makes a good detective story. If the Joker is just a loose cannon killing everyone in sight, there's nothing for the Batman to solve.

[Will Evans]

I’m still waiting on a Death of the Joker event.

I’d buy 5 copies alone.


From making the most damage to Batman’s crew (killing Gordon’s 2nd wife Sarah, crippling Barbara, killing Jason) to killing Lois Lane in two continuities (Kingdom Come, Injustice), Joker is just too much at this point.

And has too much plot armor.

[Frontier]

I’m still waiting on a Death of the Joker event.

I’d buy 5 copies alone.

Robot Chicken made a joke about this .

[batnbreakfast]

Joker's Millions. What a great episode that was and how it shows there's fun to be had with the character Jerry Robinson created. You remember fun in comics boys and girls? He doesn't have to be Killing Joke/NoMan'sLand Joker all the time. Pass on Joker war. War of Jokes and Riddles was utter crap.

[Restingvoice]

Dennis O'Neill returning the Joker to his murderous roots with "The Joker's 5 Way Revenge" in Batman 251 probably made the character remain relevant throughout the 80s, 90s, and 00s as comic books increasingly became more "dark and gritty". However I don't think keeping with this creative decision makes sense from a narrative standpoint. The Joker has killed so many people at this point in the comics that one has to question why he hasn't been given the death penalty* or killed by a rogue police officer of vigilante.

When it comes to the Joker I much prefer the eccentric "Clown Prince of Crime" to the mass murdering psychopath take on him. It goes to show that the more "dark" direction isn't always the one that's more believable.

No, but writers seeing Killing Joke and A Death in The Family then decided to one-up each other in shock value is

[Timothy Hunter]

There are different iterations of the Joker, so D.C. doesn't have to stick with the mass murderer. The original Joker and the one in the "5 Way Revenge" was a guy on a vendetta against specific people. So the Batman could figure out who were the targets and try to protect them from the Joker's revenge scheme. That makes a good detective story. If the Joker is just a loose cannon killing everyone in sight, there's nothing for the Batman to solve.

You are right in making that distinction.

[Mistah K88]

Joke has a lot of problems. Him being violent isn't even the worst of them.

It used to be that Joker loved one person, The Joker. He was an egomaniac that was loved the spotlight. He loved to stick his face on his car and his gadgets. His crimes were often to show that HE was the best. He wasn't in love with Batman. Batman was stealing his spotlight.

Also, Joker didn't spend so much time trying to prove his point to everyone. The world is madness, one bad day, yada yada. Joker used to just think it was really funny to tie people onto a giant birthday cake and use them as candles. If you didn't think that was funny, that's your problem. He wasn't going to stand there and lecture you.

Then there's the deal with "super sanity" and how he remembers his origin different ways. That's just an excuse for writers to not have to bother giving him any actual personality. Yeah, just do whatever. It'll work.

The bloodbath stuff is a problem too, just not the main one.

*Claps*

While I don't think that Joker being violent was a mistake at all, I do think that forgetting that he was the Clown Prince of Crime rather than a murder god.

Even in his earliest appearances, where he would broadcast his crimes before committing them showed that he liked attention and the game of wits more than anything. So it's not his violent psychopathy being emphasized being a problem, its the fact that he has been holed up in a box that starts to suspend disbelief more and more.

[Arsenal]

The Clown prince of Crime gimmick works fine for a regular level antagonist but it alone would make it really difficult to justify his position as a modern Batman’s arch nemesis. Over the years Bruce has reached the point where Joker being his big bad just doesn’t make sense but the character is far to iconic for anybody else to ever have a chance of replacing him. So Joker has to be something “more” than just another gangster with a gimmick but I don’t know what can be done to revamp the Joker into what he needs to be.

[williamtheday]

Is he a pedophile cannibal yet?