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  1. #1
    Mighty Member
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    Default The Marriage of Heaven and Hell. Damien Hellstrim and Warren Worthingston

    Some of you will hate this idea. No.... thereís absolutely no basis for it in 616 canon but I think this would be awesome for an alt reality title or oerhaps a plot or sub plot in an alt future story line.Probably these guys are somebodyís favorite characters and they donít want these characters altered and I get that. Awesomely good idea? Awesomely bad idea? Meh? Your thoughts please.

  2. #2
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    If you want Heaven & Hell being united I feel you could use an angel from Heven and a random Hell person

  3. #3
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    You're right.

    I hate this idea.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Admittedly off topic rant in 3, 2, 1...

    I hate that Marvel has a fairly deep bench when it comes to demons and daemonic/dark representation, but almost no true angels or angelic/divine representation. And no, Angela doesn't count, since her original mythos was altered and subsumed within the Norse pantheon. And no, the Cheyarafim mutants, of which Warren may or may not be a descendant, doesn't count, either. /endrant

    As for the OP's idea, are we talking a literal marriage with Warren somehow discovering that he's LGBTQ? I realize there are some schools of thought which hold that everyone is merely on a spectrum, but that would be a tough sell, given Warren's past relationships. You propose an alternate universe Warren, so maybe that might work. I guess it all depends on whether or not there is a groundswell of support for Daimon. I know Warren has a fairly large fanbase, but I don't know that they'd be thrilled to see him mated to Hellstrom in any universe.

    If you're going to publish this book, brace yourself for the response from the anti-occult, anti-Satan coalitions that are out there. Marvel can't even routinely draw the inverted pentagram on Daimon's chest because of those "concerned" citizens.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Dante Milton's Avatar
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    Something similar nearly happened in Strikeforce. Angela and Satana flirted and kissed. A few issues later Daimon had a vision of a possible future where the two appeared to be ruling Hell together.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    Something similar nearly happened in Strikeforce. Angela and Satana flirted and kissed. A few issues later Daimon had a vision of a possible future where the two appeared to be ruling Hell together.
    That’s hot!!

  7. #7
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    As for the OP's idea, are we talking a literal marriage with Warren somehow discovering that he's LGBTQ? I realize there are some schools of thought which hold that everyone is merely on a spectrum, but that would be a tough sell, given Warren's past relationships. You propose an alternate universe Warren, so maybe that might work. I guess it all depends on whether or not there is a groundswell of support for Daimon. I know Warren has a fairly large fanbase, but I don't know that they'd be thrilled to see him mated to Hellstrom in any universe.
    I'm not sure how well making any character gay for the devil would go over.

  8. #8
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    "Heavell"or "Helven"?

  9. #9
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    Yeahhh.... liking it less the more I think of it honestly. It was a late night. I was remember Blake’s Heaven and Hell From English Romantic poets class or some such a lifetime or 2 ago.Thought of Damien. Thought of Warren. and there you go.
    Last edited by Photon Torme; 07-08-2020 at 10:07 PM.

  10. #10
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    It honestly sounds like a rip off of Good Omens. It's pretty cliche by this point.

  11. #11
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    Never Got around to that one. Did one of the guys from Monty Python write that?

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    It's not uncommon for antipodal characters to work as a team or form romantic relationships. The old adage "opposites attract" wasn't coined for nothing. But I just don't see Warren and Daimon as the right match. I also don't believe that Angel fits as the obverse of Hellstorm just because his nom de guerre is Angel (or Archangel, whatever the case may be). If you tweak the idea a bit, you might have a decent pairing.

    Resuming rant in 3, 2, 1...

    Marvel really does need to create angelic beings -- not just bird men with mystical backgounds, but angels by the classic definition. I know the Celestials are metaphorically meant to represent the heavenly messengers of the Creator, but it wouldn't hurt to drive that point all the way home with beings that actually look and conduct themselves like angels. Heck, spare no detail, including using some of the more commonly known classifications, e.g., the Seraphim, the Cherubim, Angels of the Throne, Archangels, Angels of Dominion, Angels of Principality, Angels of Power, Angels of Virtue, etc. If they're going to have all of these demons running around, it's only right to give equal time and treatment to their opposite number. After all, according to several religious traditions, most demons started off as angels.

    And now that I've given it a bit more thought, yes, Marvel must do this. They don't have to create any new characters. It's probably just a simple matter of massaging existing characters to suit. It wouldn't be difficult to establish characters like Firebird, Gilgamesh, Monica Rambeau, Akasha, Sun Dragon, etc., as angelic beings. And yeah, screw Odin and the Norse god crap. Make Angela a true angel again, too, while we're at it. Wings optional.
    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 07-08-2020 at 10:15 PM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    The idea behind this is actually pretty cool, but the problem is... Warren is not an actual angel? I know there was that whole Cherayafim talk in the early 2000s, but I don't think it was ever truly confirmed that Warren was a descendant of that angelic kind, and it was just kind of dropped ever since. I think if you want to emphasize the mythological/biblical aspect of it, it makes more sense to get an angelic character based on actual mythology. So replace Warren with someone like Gabriel (yeah, THAT Gabriel; I just recently found out he exists in the MU) and you have one hell (no pun intended) of a pitch.

    This thread is making me sad that the Helstrom TV show is probably doomed to cancellation. It would've been nice to get some hebraic mythology in the MCU.

    Quote Originally Posted by HipHopAvenger View Post
    If you want Heaven & Hell being united I feel you could use an angel from Heven and a random Hell person
    We definitely could use more Heven representation other than Angela and Sera.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I'm not sure how well making any character gay for the devil would go over.
    You underestimate this generation's tastes. Good Omens was popular for a lot of reasons, one of them being the fact that a lot of people actually shipped the two main male characters, an angel and a demon. Sure, they would probably get some flak from old farts like One Million Moms, but it's not like those people have ever actually succeeded in boycotting anything nowadays.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 07-09-2020 at 12:06 AM.

  14. #14
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Marvel really does need to create angelic beings -- not just bird men with mystical backgounds, but angels by the classic definition. I know the Celestials are metaphorically meant to represent the heavenly messengers of the Creator, but it wouldn't hurt to drive that point all the way home with beings that actually look and conduct themselves like angels. Heck, spare no detail, including using some of the more commonly known classifications, e.g., the Seraphim, the Cherubim, Angels of the Throne, Archangels, Angels of Dominion, Angels of Principality, Angels of Power, Angels of Virtue, etc. If they're going to have all of these demons running around, it's only right to give equal time and treatment to their opposite number. After all, according to several religious traditions, most demons started off as angels.
    I know at one point they tried to say Ghost Rider was an actual angel, but I think everybody pretty much ignored that.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Might work better with a Norse or Greek character and a hell character. one from above and one from below.

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