Classic Strange vs. Parallax

[Superfan90]

He's also beaten Moondragon in a mental duel, and she's got feats at least as good as Parallax.

Has she now?

[Superfan90]

The point regarding Parallax would be that he was restrained by sinestro and then.... hals feelings for Carol which are all more powerful than the Spectre apparently

https://i.postimg.cc/jdhV23k4/RCO015.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Gm3WyPWw/RCO017.jpg

Dude, you're fixated on Hal Jordan too much. Under Geoff Johns he could do pretty much anything.

I mean, his willpower is an echo of the spark of creation, more powerful than green Lantern CPB.



And he actually controlled Nekron with his black ring.

Its certainly not regular Ganthet...certainly not the Ganthet of the Queintessence

Why?

That is an unbound Spectre, but then again apparently Hal Jordan Spectre= black Lantern crispus allen= Unbound Spectre ....and all of them less powerful than Hal Jordan GL .

Who can also match Parallax possessing Ganthet

Again with Hal Jordan stuff?

[Superfan90]

Man I'm being pre empted a lot in this thread ;p (which is fine, my posting energy during quarantine times wanes...)

Well, without then repeating what is otherwise getting noted. Basically, and certainly there are a lot of problems being pointed out, but the idea that all incarnations of the Spectre are somehow equivalent as far as trying to claim some kind of "Spectre level entity" for something is extremely dubious when, you know, the various incarnations of the Spectre are not equivalent to each other in performances, effectiveness, what have you.

And it makes it kind of a mess when someone tries to go "but here's the Spectre being powerful there. Therefore he's being just as powerful here interchangeably."

Orrrrr, maybe the Spectre is having a comparatively crap showing under a writer that doesn't reaaaallly have a lot of regard for said entity.

But Geoff Johns doesn't shows Spectre in poor light. In his writing Spectre casually dispatches Dr Fate (previously it was always a fight), oneshots Thunderbolt (when half of Thunderbolt imprisoned Spectre previously), turned Neron into ice (when Neron rebuffed Spectre casually previously). I don't think Johns intended Spectre to be any less powerful.

[The Dork Knight]

But Geoff Johns doesn't shows Spectre in poor light. In his writing Spectre casually dispatches Dr Fate (previously it was always a fight),

The Spectre sneak attacked a Hector Hall relaxing at home before he could draw upon the Dr Fate powers

And just like the Spectre himself, not all Dr Fates are made equal. Inza Kent for instance struggled to achieve too much, even in conjunction with other magic users, against a Spectre possessed by eclipso

oneshots Thunderbolt (when half of Thunderbolt imprisoned Spectre previously),

Half of Thunderbolt sneak attacked him and the only reason Spectre didn't retaliate was because he didnt want to destroy all the innocent lives that sprung up on him

turned Neron into ice (when Neron rebuffed Spectre casually previously). I don't think Johns intended Spectre to be any less powerful.

Johns certainly, in general, wrote the Spectre at less than the levels some other writers wrote him

Which is why we go by consistent high end feats instead of feats under a single writer

[The Dork Knight]

Dude, you're fixated on Hal Jordan too much. Under Geoff Johns he could do pretty much anything.

I mean, his willpower is an echo of the spark of creation, more powerful than green Lantern CPB.

And he actually controlled Nekron with his black ring.


Why?

Again with Hal Jordan stuff?

Ok. Sounds like you are saying Hal Jordan is more powerful than entire lantern corps

You need to read the rules and observe how we adjudge "consistent high end feats" here for a while before making such arguments that are simply not acceptable hereabouts

The reason I'm fixated on Jordan, and by extension your arguments regarding Parallax through that, is because the implications of some of your arguments utterly throw caution to the winds and make Jordan (or Parallax, or anybody) "as powerful as the writer wants him to be"

Which, while fair enough in a comic, would in the case of a debate board, just translate to " whoever I like wins". We dont do things like that hereabouts

[Superfan90]

The Spectre sneak attacked a Hector Hall relaxing at home before he could draw upon the Dr Fate powers

That's not what happened. Hector was fully powered and then Spectre trapped him in his own helmet. And that was when Hector was actually more powerful than Nabu (Having defeated a demon Nabu couldn't).

And just like the Spectre himself, not all Dr Fates are made equal. Inza Kent for instance struggled to achieve too much, even in conjunction with other magic users, against a Spectre possessed by eclipso

Exactly, Hector was by far the most powerful Dr Fate in continuity, more than even Kent Nelson. Spectre dispatched him with ease.

Half of Thunderbolt sneak attacked him and the only reason Spectre didn't retaliate was because he didnt want to destroy all the innocent lives that sprung up on him

Uh, where did you get that Yz Sucker attacked him and Spectre didn't get free because of "innocent lives"? Scan?

Johns certainly, in general, wrote the Spectre at less than the levels some other writers wrote him

Like who exactly? Johns wrote Spectre as more powerful than Ostrander (Spectre couldn't do anything to Spirit King under Ostrander and Johns had Spectre eat him alive). Same with Neron.

Which is why we go by consistent high end feats instead of feats under a single writer

Exactly, that's why I'm baffled at why you think Parallax overpowering Spectre isn't a good feat for Parallax.

[Superfan90]

Ok. Sounds like you are saying Hal Jordan is more powerful than entire lantern corps

You need to read the rules and observe how we adjudge "consistent high end feats" here for a while before making such arguments that are simply not acceptable hereabouts

The reason I'm fixated on Jordan, and by extension your arguments regarding Parallax through that, is because the implications of some of your arguments utterly throw caution to the winds and make Jordan (or Parallax, or anybody) "as powerful as the writer wants him to be"

Which, while fair enough in a comic, would in the case of a debate board, just translate to " whoever I like wins". We dont do things like that hereabouts

Under Geoff Johns? His willpower was a plot device (not necessarily on power levels). That's why he could do things like kill Krona, control Nekron and resurrect himself by GL ring when it's not possible to resurrect dead by a GL ring.

Using Hal Jordan to undermine Parallax is like missing the entire work of Geoff Johns.

[Nik Hasta]

Under Geoff Johns? His willpower was a plot device (not necessarily on power levels). That's why he could do things like kill Krona, control Nekron and resurrect himself by GL ring when it's not possible to resurrect dead by a GL ring.

Using Hal Jordan to undermine Parallax is like missing the entire work of Geoff Johns.

As Dork has already pointed out, we don't use purely specific periods when discussing characters (unless they are stated as such by the OP) we try and look at the totality of a given version (Post Crisis, Pre Crisis, etc) and use the /consistent/ high end feats to establish what the character's actual power is intended to be.

I haven't read any mainline DC for a good long while but claiming that Hal Jordan's raw willpower is stronger than the entire Central Power Battery seems very suspect.

[The Dork Knight]

That's not what happened. Hector was fully powered and then Spectre trapped him in his own helmet.

https://i.postimg.cc/4dvfqHsp/RCO002.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/kGnJmMgz/RCO003.jpg

In case you cant see, he hasn't even fully transformed into Dr Fate when Spectre attacked (see his pants)

And that was when Hector was actually more powerful than Nabu (Having defeated a demon Nabu couldn't).

Exactly, Hector was by far the most powerful Dr Fate in continuity, more than even Kent Nelson. Spectre dispatched him with ease.

Other writers shortly after, as part of the same arc, have Nabu get into a fight with the Spectre dwarfing planets and moons on a day the Spectre is burning out the universe inside his helmet

You say Spectre beat Hector Hall (who himself was written...dubiously by Johns) because it suits your argument of Johns not downplaying the Spectre. You also use Johns' story of Hall surpassing Nabu. But you do not feel the need to address Nabu doing much better than Hall in Day of Vengeance itself because it doesnt suit your argument

Do you see the problem here? You cant just pick and ignore things at will what "counts"

Uh, where did you get that Yz Sucker attacked him and Spectre didn't get free because of "innocent lives"? Scan?

Because the Spectre (not Zauriel or Scott) threw off his chains/blew up the rock the moment the creatures living upon him were dead

https://i.postimg.cc/zfs31j7q/image.jpg

Exactly, that's why I'm baffled at why you think Parallax overpowering Spectre isn't a good feat for Parallax.

Parallax beating Spectre in Zero Hour is pretty good given what Parallax and Spectre were both doing at the time

Parallax overpowering Spectre in Rebirth on a day when 5 Lanterns can imprison him or in Blackest Night when Sinestro and Hal's love connection can severe Parallax from the host....are not the same thing

It is not that hard to make the distinction.

[The Dork Knight]

Under Geoff Johns? His willpower was a plot device (not necessarily on power levels). That's why he could do things like kill Krona, control Nekron and resurrect himself by GL ring when it's not possible to resurrect dead by a GL ring.

Using Hal Jordan to undermine Parallax is like missing the entire work of Geoff Johns.

If Hal's willpower is a plot device that allows you to say basically anything counts, then I dont see the point of posting so many feats and arguments when you can just sum up with " I want Parallax to win because hes a plot device" just like "Johns wants Hal to win because hes a plot device"

It basically defeats the point of a debate board if your argument boils down to there is no such thing as PIS or inconsistency and pretty much everything counts (but also nothing) as long as you want it to

[The Watcher]

Official Moderator Voice
Superfan90, once again you are failing to abide by Rumbles Board rules and standard with regards to evidence and feats, as well as misrepresenting the content of cited material. Cease posting on this thread.

Do not engage in such practices in the future.

[Superfan90]

Edit, sorry. Didn't see the post from moderator.