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  1. #241
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Exactly, thank you both. We're reading about Krakoa's "CIA" and Hank's poor choices. It wasn't an overt attack on another nation. It's meant to be provocative and messy just like the real world is and I think Percy is knocking it out of the park. Now it's on Jean to decide what she's going to do about it, if anything.
    Overt or not, it was an attack on Terra Verde, and actions have consequences. I'd be really surprised if the writer didn't follow up on the international aftermath of that affair for Krakoa.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Beast should never had this power to begin. It was a failure as nation
    Beast was put in that position by the Quiet Council and we all know how the Council deals with the agents that become a liability to them, Sabertooth can attest to that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I think she purged them. The art showed her being able to do it with Wolverine and we saw the people on the floor without the technoflornic stuff. The dialogue said "maybe they can be free now", which wouldnt have made sense if they were dead

    IA agree with those that say that Beast needs to be punished. It would send a message if one of the X-men were put in the pits bc what he did here was a worse offense than Sabretooth. He lied to the council and his actions had larger reprecussions
    We don't know for sure, but even if they've been purged, some of them will have died regardless, whether because they were attacked like the people in the presidential residence were, or because they had been turned into pollen like Quentin Quire has been.
    That's still a lot of lives lost even if the purge worked the way you suggest.
    The consequences can't be limited to Beast being punished, Terra Verde has been thrown under the bus by Krakoa, they should be compensated in full if they are to even mitigate this disaster a little.
    Because they just made a nation of ennemies here, let alone the international community reacting badly to this imo.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  2. #242
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gambitxremy View Post
    So beast committed genocide
    Part of my problem with this issue is that it feels bitty and incoherent, where before X-Force has been really on point. The narration section implies that Beast has wiped out a nation, but toward the end Jean is surrounded by a sea of naked human bodies with the vines withering and thinks "Maybe they can be free now". And then something about Beast turning it into a republic of Krakoa, which doesn't seem to make sense unless the teleflouronics is still around, but under the mutants' control. Then instead of dealing with the aftermath, we get some non-drama about Jean being into midgets (non-drama because we already know there's some open relationship stuff going on).

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    The pit? This is Krakoa. Hank just earned himself Kitty’s place on the council.
    Sure he has but that would be a bad idea,coz now you have 2 mad scientists on there instead of just Sinister.Beast and Sinister on the same page..will come back to bite Krakoa X(choose any power) times as hard

  4. #244
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    I think the free refers to the population of Terra Verde now being free since the dictator was killed. Because it was followed by "but Hank might want to annex it".

    So probably they're alive since Jean was talking about removing the contagion.
    What dictator are you talking about? Their president was trying to lift up his country through research and technology, he was modelling it over what the Wakandans achieved.
    And even after Krakoa emerged, he still went and made a deal with them to, again, lift up his country from poverty.
    That's not the actions of a dictator.
    And how did the Kraked repaid him?
    By lobotomizing his son, sabotaging his country's technology and ultimately destroying it, killing him and other Verdeans in the process.

    So again, what dictator are you referring to here?

    As for Jean comment, I hope it was her making a bitter comment about the awfulness of what Beast caused and did.
    Annexing Terra Verde after they contributed to destroy it would be a moral horizon the Kraked would never be able to come back from.
    They're already walking the line with the way they deposed Le Fay at Avalon to install one of their people as the leader in her stead, among other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    The pit? This is Krakoa. Hank just earned himself Kitty’s place on the council.
    They'll scapegoat Hank for this, eventhough they are the ones who gave him the mandate in the first place, and were supposed to supervise the activities of that group.
    It's as much a failure from Hank than it is from the Quiet Council, but I'm not expecting them to share the burden of assuming the consequences with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    What business had the Spanish in Mexico, or the French in Africa, or the British everyhwere? And unlike those, Terra Verde was actually a threat.
    Terra Verde was a technological competitor to Krakoa.
    That's different.
    And that doesn't justify their destruction.

    Also, thank you for highliting the imperialism Krakoa showed here, which is the same that many other nations did in the past, with just as tragic consequences for the local populations.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  5. #245
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    …Jean is surrounded by a sea of naked human bodies with the vines withering and thinks "Maybe they can be free now".
    As: “They make a desert and call it peace.” ?

  6. #246
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post

    Terra Verde was a technological competitor to Krakoa.
    That's different.
    And that doesn't justify their destruction.

    Also, thank you for highliting the imperialism Krakoa showed here, which is the same that many other nations did in the past, with just as tragic consequences for the local populations.
    I'm not saying that Beast's actions were justified, but they could be a potential threat, even if used by someone else.

    And yes, that's a point that should be repeated- Krakoa is doing questionable things, but every other nation did. Mutants aren't inherently inferior or superior to regular humans morally.

    Also, Krakoa has in it's ranks people that were or are racist and willing to commit mass murder (and maybe already did), like Apocalypse or Exodus, but are these people really different from a Napoleon, or Caesar, or Alexander, who are to this day hailed as heroes by many?

  7. #247
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    So assuming Beast did kill the entire population because of a bad hunch and dabbling in powers he can’t control, what exactly is the difference between him and Wanda?

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    I'm not saying that Beast's actions were justified, but they could be a potential threat, even if used by someone else.
    And now Beast must answer for his horrifying mistake for the lives he ruined and made a PR nightmare for Krakoa to cover up. How this goes is a coin flip, Xavier is far more lax about criminal activity than in his X-men days.

    And yes, that's a point that should be repeated- Krakoa is doing questionable things, but every other nation did. Mutants aren't inherently inferior or superior to regular humans morally.
    Might want to share this belief with other posters, they're not getting it.

    Also, Krakoa has in it's ranks people that were or are racist and willing to commit mass murder (and maybe already did), like Apocalypse or Exodus, but are these people really different from a Napoleon, or Caesar, or Alexander, who are to this day hailed as heroes by many?
    No "maybe" about it, and numerous individuals crimes go above mass murder. All those figures are controversial, since it became more acceptable in society to question what they did rather than blindly follow propaganda which made them heroes. Apocalypse and Selene are conquerers who are worse than those three in scope, those humans would be in awe at the destruction those two have inflicted on the world and their own kind. The people who thought they were monsters? The X-men.

  9. #249
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    ...

    Might want to share this belief with other posters, they're not getting it.

    ...
    No, they're getting it just fine.

    While Beast made the same sort of an error in judgement that he has made on multiple occasions before there was ever a fledgling mutant homeland, it's not like he attempted to murder three representatives of a country just because they decided to turn up in something of a diplomatic mission.

    Never mind that Hank being called on it was a whole lot more accountability than we saw out of any of the humans who made the attempts on those mutant lives.

    Somebody is inherently superior. Folks are just cutting humanity a pretty darn big bunch of slack.

  10. #250
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    I'm not saying that Beast's actions were justified, but they could be a potential threat, even if used by someone else.
    That's the kind of argument allowing for the floodsgates to open regarding all kind of exactions and crimes.
    Hard no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    And yes, that's a point that should be repeated- Krakoa is doing questionable things, but every other nation did. Mutants aren't inherently inferior or superior to regular humans morally.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Also, Krakoa has in it's ranks people that were or are racist and willing to commit mass murder (and maybe already did), like Apocalypse or Exodus, but are these people really different from a Napoleon, or Caesar, or Alexander, who are to this day hailed as heroes by many?
    So? I didn't see any of those historical figures in that X-Force issue.
    And they also have had their fair share of detractors and critics throughout history, even nowadays.
    I'm not gonna hail Beast as a hero for destroying that country out of technological spite at the very least.

    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    So assuming Beast did kill the entire population because of a bad hunch and dabbling in powers he can’t control, what exactly is the difference between him and Wanda?
    There is no comparison to be made as their two situations aren't similar in the first place.
    One was possessed, the other was not.
    Meaning one can't be blamed for the act, the other absolutely can.
    Story's end.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    No, they're getting it just fine.

    While Beast made the same sort of an error in judgement that he has made on multiple occasions before there was ever a fledgling mutant homeland, it's not like he attempted to murder three representatives of a country just because they decided to turn up in something of a diplomatic mission.
    Beast just caused the collapse of Terra Verde, he outstrips the US assassination attempt at this diplomatic gathering by a wide margin.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Never mind that Hank being called on it was a whole lot more accountability than we saw out of any of the humans who made the attempts on those mutant lives.
    That's false.
    The US representative was immediately chastised by the other sapien representatives for the rashness of the act.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Somebody is inherently superior. Folks are just cutting humanity a pretty darn big bunch of slack.
    Mutants are part of that Humanity, there's no reason to cut them slack when they pull that kind of bs disaster on other people. Accountability works for everyone.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  12. #252
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post


    Mutants are part of that Humanity, there's no reason to cut them slack when they pull that kind of bs disaster on other people. Accountability works for everyone.
    yeah. The genocides against mutants had all people with mutants origins.

    now they go and do the same thing

  13. #253
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    This issue suffered for the delay.

    Interesting that Jean's complaint was that Hank kept secrets from mutants, not that he deployed a nation killing weapon. And, while she called him out, it was only done privately.

    We can assume that Domino is going to realize that she wanted to keep her memories (that were wiped). We can assume that Hank's tinkering may contaminate the island (creating another mechanism by which the X-books can be set back to normal).
    Current pull-file:
    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots and minis)
    Stealth
    Transformers
    Transformers: Galaxies
    X-Force
    -----------------------------
    - http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

  14. #254
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    To this day, Wanda fans cant even explain what the heck the Life Force was. It was a generic plot device to say she wasnt responsible and hasnt been used again

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    They kisse dnad that is it.
    Sorry, what would that refute precisely? Does folks kissing while cuddling topless (at the very least) in a hot tub occur with some frequency in your platonic interactions?

    If so, many of us are getting shortchanged and need better friends. Please advise.

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