Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22
  1. #1
    Spectacular Member Matches's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    102

    Default Is The Azrael 1990's run any good?

    I usually am only into books with Bruce but curious about this series

  2. #2
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    884

    Default

    Depends on two perspectives:

    A) It was the nineties. Exaggerated, violent artwork, exaggerated, violent action, coupled with big bangs. Inflated storylines, often many of them attached with events, such as Legacy, Contagion, and No Man's Land.

    B) If you are into Jean-Paul Valley. To be honest, my reading of Jean-Paul Valley was purely just Knightfall / Knightquest / Knightsend, which to me, that is enough. However, Azrael, I would, had I decided to read it, consider it "essential", out of the fact that it continued Jean-Paul Valley's story.
    Last edited by ngroove; 07-09-2020 at 09:34 AM.

  3. #3
    Amazing Member Wrestler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    97

    Default

    I really appreciate his stories, I've read pretty much everything about him until No Man's Land. People here tend to dislike JVP for some reason, but I highly recommend reading it (as you would have imagined with my avatar).

    For me, the holy trinity of Batfamily is Batman himself, Nightwing and Azrael.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member Garlador's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,550

    Default

    Been ages since I've posted here, but I'll state that Azrael was one of my early favorite characters and I feel the 90s run is WAY underappreciated. I got the TPB of Sword of Azrael and the first few issues of his solo series.

    It's a ton of fun. It has a globe-trotting trait that makes him feel like a more international hero compared to Batman, and his journey to understand the history of - and then seek to dismantle - the Order of St. Dumas gives him a historical legacy that's fascinating to explore. His supporting cast, from St. Dumas Sister Lilhy - who seeks to reform rather than destroy the Order, and Brian Bryan, a disgraced alcoholic psychiatrist who seeks to befriend and rehabilitate Jean-Paul, both serve as great tertiary characters.

    I'd argue that the series was pretty fun and executed for the first 50 issues or so. Things went south as they tried to integrate him more into the Batman and Gotham adventures instead of letting him be his own hero. I still love the set-up for the character and I'm happy to see Justice League Odyssey tap into that potential to make him beyond an international hero and turn him into a legit galaxy-trotting hero.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,526

    Default

    The mini-series was great, a fun globe trotting adventure. The start of the regular series was good, but as it when on, he just became another Batman clone in my opinion.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, SiKtC, Catwoman, Nightwing, Titans, Godzilla, Wonder Woman, Batman & Robin, Brave and the Bold, No/One, Kill your Darlings, and Deviant.
    My runs: Batman #230-, and Detective #420-

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Garlador View Post
    I'd argue that the series was pretty fun and executed for the first 50 issues or so. Things went south as they tried to integrate him more into the Batman and Gotham adventures instead of letting him be his own hero.
    This. Azreal is absolutely worth reading....but it's not worth finishing the series. But the first few years were absolutely great.

    When Jean Paul starts hanging around Gotham more, and trying to emulate Bruce more, that's when it's time to cash in your chips and walk away. If you make it to the white costume with the open hair, you've stuck around a bit too long.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  7. #7
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    12,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    This. Azreal is absolutely worth reading....but it's not worth finishing the series. But the first few years were absolutely great.

    When Jean Paul starts hanging around Gotham more, and trying to emulate Bruce more, that's when it's time to cash in your chips and walk away. If you make it to the white costume with the open hair, you've stuck around a bit too long.
    Oops! That's exactly when I lost interest. As soon as they got rid of the Quesada version of Azrael, I no longer felt the need to continue...



    Eventually, I did catch the finale. Great climax (but still sad, though):

    Last edited by K7P5V; 07-12-2020 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Corrected Grammatical Errors.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    This. Azreal is absolutely worth reading....but it's not worth finishing the series. But the first few years were absolutely great.

    When Jean Paul starts hanging around Gotham more, and trying to emulate Bruce more, that's when it's time to cash in your chips and walk away. If you make it to the white costume with the open hair, you've stuck around a bit too long.
    Yup. The first two years, up to around #26, are quite good. There's an Arkham story after that that's also pretty good. After that it varied between ok and really bad. The last few issues are almost totally nonsensical.
    Cheers - CL

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Underneath the Brooklyn Bridge
    Posts
    2,570

    Default

    Didn't he stay dead from 2003 until the 2011 reboot? Was it explained why he returned in Rebirth?

    Has Michael Lane been seen since Batman Incorporated?

  10. #10
    Mighty Member jb681131's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,491

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    I usually am only into books with Bruce but curious about this series
    The others forgot to mention "The Sword of Azrael", which needs to be read before all, even Knightfall.
    You can find it collected in the following volume:


  11. #11
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,924

    Default

    Yeah, the first few years on the solo title were pretty good. It wasn't perfect, mind you. But it was still a decent read. Like others have said, if Azrael had been allowed to develop into his own hero, instead of becoming yet another Batman clone in the titles last few years of publication, It would have lasted a bit longer. I could understand roping him in for the Legacy and Contagion crossovers (because he was pivotal in both), but there was no need for the later storylines such as No Man's Land.

    There were a few good arcs during his run - The Fall Of Saint Dumas and The Return Of Bane.

    In the end, Azrael was Batman's agent/operative overseas. He should have remained as such.

  12. #12
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    107

    Default

    It started out good but too many issues were Azrael duking it out with really strong dumb guys. Felt too samey after a while. And Denny O'Neill was going for a deeper philosophical meaning with the Order of St Dumas and their tenets but that never became really clear, I feel.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    9,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Didn't he stay dead from 2003 until the 2011 reboot? Was it explained why he returned in Rebirth?
    He was reintroduced during Batman and Robin Eternal pre Rebirth.
    And that version was also the one in the Rebirth TEC run.
    His pre Flashpoint history (including Knightfall and his solo) was still out of continuity at that point.

  14. #14
    Spectacular Member AzraelOnline's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    Depends on two perspectives:

    A) It was the nineties. Exaggerated, violent artwork, exaggerated, violent action, coupled with big bangs. Inflated storylines, often many of them attached with events, such as Legacy, Contagion, and No Man's Land.

    B) If you are into Jean-Paul Valley. To be honest, my reading of Jean-Paul Valley was purely just Knightfall / Knightquest / Knightsend, which to me, that is enough. However, Azrael, I would, had I decided to read it, consider it "essential", out of the fact that it continued Jean-Paul Valley's story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestler View Post
    I really appreciate his stories, I've read pretty much everything about him until No Man's Land. People here tend to dislike JVP for some reason, but I highly recommend reading it (as you would have imagined with my avatar).

    For me, the holy trinity of Batfamily is Batman himself, Nightwing and Azrael.
    I noticed you mentioned 'being attached to other story arcs....how is that any different from pretty much literally every single character associated with Batman even now.
    His solo series is about redemption, and at the same time it shows what a complete jerk Bruce is as well.
    The hate for JPV, to be honest has been perpetuated GREATLY by this very website. If you own any of the physical books from back then, or even read some of the books like
    Hero and Wizard, people actually really liked JPV as Batman. It wasn't until latter era of KnightQuest that people were like, ok, when will Bruce be back.
    There's one interview where Denny O'Neil actually said if people didn't start wanting Bruce back they might have kept him in the suit longer.
    Most people complain about KnightQuest but the thing is, that whole arc was meant to be normal stories like the bat books use to have; many stand alone
    or two issue stories, not these mega arcs that they keep shoving down our throats now.

    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    The mini-series was great, a fun globe trotting adventure. The start of the regular series was good, but as it when on, he just became another Batman clone in my opinion.
    Well, Azrael was written by Dennis O'Neil who wrote Batman for how long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
    Yup. The first two years, up to around #26, are quite good. There's an Arkham story after that that's also pretty good. After that it varied between ok and really bad. The last few issues are almost totally nonsensical.
    Most people don't realize the real reason why the series ended, and why it did the way it did was due to Dennis O'Neil's health. He referred to it as 'art imitating life.'

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Didn't he stay dead from 2003 until the 2011 reboot? Was it explained why he returned in Rebirth?

    Has Michael Lane been seen since Batman Incorporated?
    He did stay dead, but DC wanted to use the name, but couldn't use JPV or that suit without paying up to Quesada, hence Michael Lane.
    As for his 'reintroduction' in B&R Eternal, they kind of screwed up as they sort of make a reference to him being the bat in Knightfall.
    They thankfully haven't brought Michael Lane back. I say thankfully because thanks to those Arkham video games and those people not
    doing their research, a lot of gamers think Lane is the Azrael from Knightfall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Yeah, the first few years on the solo title were pretty good. It wasn't perfect, mind you. But it was still a decent read. Like others have said, if Azrael had been allowed to develop into his own hero, instead of becoming yet another Batman clone in the titles last few years of publication, It would have lasted a bit longer. I could understand roping him in for the Legacy and Contagion crossovers (because he was pivotal in both), but there was no need for the later storylines such as No Man's Land.

    There were a few good arcs during his run - The Fall Of Saint Dumas and The Return Of Bane.

    In the end, Azrael was Batman's agent/operative overseas. He should have remained as such.
    He was trying to become his own person, but much of the series was him trying to gain Bruce's approval which, he most likely would have never gotten :/

    Quote Originally Posted by mrswing View Post
    It started out good but too many issues were Azrael duking it out with really strong dumb guys. Felt too samey after a while. And Denny O'Neill was going for a deeper philosophical meaning with the Order of St Dumas and their tenets but that never became really clear, I feel.
    A lot of people, including current DC writers, seem to think that Azrael is a religious character, but he NEVER was. O'Neil has gone on to clarify this saying it was due
    to his wife that he would not actually write about religion or faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    He was reintroduced during Batman and Robin Eternal pre Rebirth.
    And that version was also the one in the Rebirth TEC run.
    His pre Flashpoint history (including Knightfall and his solo) was still out of continuity at that point.
    They sort of made an allusion that he was the bat during Knightfall, but have strayed from it a bit.
    Azrael Online - The Source for all things Azrael

  15. #15
    BANNED Bad Witch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Niagara Falls
    Posts
    368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jb681131 View Post
    The others forgot to mention "The Sword of Azrael", which needs to be read before all, even Knightfall.
    You can find it collected in the following volume:



    Ugh, so folks up here in canada keep finding this at dollorama for 4 bucks. I don't want.to spent 30 on it so I keep going to dollaramas (before the recent lockdown) and I can't find it! Just seeing the image is a sore spot trying now lol...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •