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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I think when it comes to adaptations, even the ones that are more serialized like animated series or live action shows, they have to be more pragmatic in what they adapt. The villains are easier to adapt because they can be part of self contained stories and float in and out of the plot as need be. With Batman's inner circle of allies, especially the big amount he has currently in the comics, I can see how it'd be a bit harder to juggle a large cast that needs to have plot relevance to the main character and add something to his narrative while having ones of their own. This isn't as much of a problem with comics where each of them can be spun off into their own comic and get development, but more of a challenge in a film or tv series.

    This gets harder the deeper you get into the Bat Family. To adapt some of them properly, you need to have an established Batman who has a wider history behind him, as some like Tim and Cass would be inheriting mantles of other characters who have histories themselves. If an adaptation wants to streamline things down to the bare essentials and have a freer Batman who isn't bogged down by the same events he is in the comics, it makes sense that often the first thing to go is most if not all the extended family, or they get mixed and matched. The DCAU only had Dick, Babs and a Jason/Tim hybrid and they all played essential roles (ymmv on how it all turned out for them of course). If we got more added to that mix, I don't think the family dynamic would work as well. That Batman feels pretty complete. Similarly, Nolan's films don't require a Robin-type role until the end and they only needed one character to fill it. I wasn't personally thrilled with John Blake, but I can why Nolan and co felt they could tell their story with one composite character and get the point across. I hope Reeves uses Dick and Babs at least, but if he doesn't go beyond them (or even avoids using them at all) his vision can still be complete in itself. Because for the bare essentials for a version of Batman, I think all you need is Batman himself, Gotham, Alfred, Gordon and a villain. Even a Robin isn't 100% necessary at this point, though personally I don't think Batman is complete without Dick and Babs at the very least.

    The villains meanwhile are freer to show up in any order and easier to adapt.

  2. #17

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    They do more than fine in just about every medium besides the live action movies. Tv, animation, video games, they’ve translated into pretty successfully for the most part (some more than others.) Movies I’m fine with keeping Bruce solo. They don’t need to be in everything, Bruce Wayne carries the entire franchise on his back, let him have his places to shine on his own.

    Anyway it’s not like the villains have a perfect track record either. We’ve never had a good Bane-anywhere. Besides maybe Arkham origins.

  3. #18
    Spectacular Member Spencermalley935's Avatar
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    The Bat Family's been pretty solidly portrayed in everything except live-action media but while I like them just fine, I prefer Batman to work solo with occasional assistance from one of the Robins.

    Anyway it’s not like the villains have a perfect track record either. We’ve never had a good Bane-anywhere. Besides maybe Arkham origins
    I thought Tom Hardy's Bane was pretty damn awesome honestly. The Arkham Origins version was ruined far more by turning him into a amnesiac hulking monster than Hardy's was by revealing he was working with (not for) Talia.

  4. #19
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    The villains certainly get more exposure that's for sure. I've started playing Injustice 2 again and man they take a decent chunk of the roster. 6 villains, 7 if you want to count Deadshot or not. 28 fighters before DLC bumping it up to 38. Ignoring DLC, 21-22% of the roster is just bat villains. 25% if you count Deadshot.

    Then you have Robin and Red Hood as the only family representation even though they're evil.
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  5. #20
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Until I read the opening post I was afraid the real question would be "Is the Joker more popular than Dick Grayson?"
    The Joker hate and the Dick love is ridiculously strong around here you have to admit.

  6. #21

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    I think Superhero families aren't respected by the mainstream culture yet. They are either considered knockoffs at worst or understudies at best. I also agree with SiegePerilous02 as adaptations usually trim casts or cut characters out in order to save time/budget. There's a reason why most adaptations mash Barry/Wally together. Granted Ezra miller is playing an adult Bart than Barry to me.

    I disagree with some of the OP's examples as a few of them are just takes the creators were interested in but you weren't (Titans/DCEU) or outside factors (Batwoman being replaced/Barbara being excluded for BOP). Granted Cass felt like a half-measure and better off just not being used.

    Arrow is more a dissapointment to Green Arrow than Batman. I wish they spent more effort building Green Arrow's actual villians. If Luke Cage could get me to care about C-listers like Cottonmouth, Black Mariah, DiamondBack and Bushmaster than they could've did a better job with Count Vertigo, Brick and the others.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 07-12-2020 at 09:05 PM.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    outside factors (Batwoman being replaced/Barbara being excluded for BOP). Granted Cass felt like a half-measure and better off just not being used.
    With Batwoman, they could have recast Kate Kane, it's not as though actors never leave and roles never get recast. With BOP, that team has pretty much always been Bab's team, but they gave it to Harley because Harley is seemingly more popular in wider media at the moment. And yes, why bother to call a new character Cass when really she wasn't.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    With Batwoman, they could have recast Kate Kane, it's not as though actors never leave and roles never get recast. With BOP, that team has pretty much always been Bab's team, but they gave it to Harley because Harley is seemingly more popular in wider media at the moment. And yes, why bother to call a new character Cass when really she wasn't.
    To me, its possible Babs is gonna appear in the Batman and that's also why she's excluded from BOP. She's probably the mayoral candidate Bella Real while Peter Sarsgaard is secretely gonna be Harvey Dent. I think the Batman is gonna be seperate from the DCEU but grandfathered in if its succesful through Flashpoint or something.

    Most DC/Marvel adaptations are pretty loose and it wouldn't be the first time they did that.

    Your probably right about Batwoman but i think they were probably damned either way.

    Ironically the DCEU had the most potential for the Batfamily because that take on Bruce had a 20+ career. So you could set them up in the background Batman Inc style. I think the kid appeal nature of Robin makes them hesitant to really bring him in. Those characters can be hit or miss even in the cartoons. Especially with a young rookie Batman but an older veteran Batman would make better use of them.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 07-13-2020 at 09:20 AM.

  9. #24
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    To me, its possible Babs is gonna appear in the Batman and that's also why she's excluded from BOP. She's probably the mayoral candidate Bella Real while Peter Sarsgaard is secretely gonna be Harvey Dent. I think the Batman is gonna be seperate from the DCEU but grandfathered in if its succesful through Flashpoint or something.

    Most DC/Marvel adaptations are pretty loose and it wouldn't be the first time they did that.

    Your probably right about Batwoman but i think they were probably damned either way.
    Well, Babs is supposed to appear in the next season of Titans. I'd like her appear in the Matte Reeves films, but who knows, since it seems to be going for a gritty feel and the Bat-family are often regarded as cheesy.

    As for the Batwoman situation, this has been discussed ad nauseam in other threads, but the overwhelming consensus is they would have been better off recasting Kate instead of replacing her. Since now most of the fan-base are alienated.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 07-13-2020 at 06:57 PM.

  10. #25
    All-New Member Mirror Image's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Until I read the opening post I was afraid the real question would be "Is the Joker more popular than Dick Grayson?"
    The Joker hate and the Dick love is ridiculously strong around here you have to admit.
    Anyone who hates The Joker might as well hate Batman. He is to Batman what Lex Luthor is to Superman.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Well, Babs is supposed to appear in the next season of Titans. I'd like her appear in the Matte Reeves films, but who knows, since it seems to be going for a gritty feel and the Bat-family are often regarded as cheesy.

    As for the Batwoman situation, this has been discussed ad nauseam in other threads, but the overwhelming consensus is they would have been better off recasting Kate instead of replacing her. Since now most of the fan-base are alienated.
    I think Barbara would be more likely to be brought in because she's mostly an older teen/young adult when she starts. Even in "The Batman" (2005-2011) her episodes were in season 3 were an easier compromise than Dick's season 4. But Huntress, Azrael, Orpheus, Batwing, or Onyx have an easier time being brought in than the kids. Even "Beware the Batman" focused on Katana and the outsiders.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Joker as a character is now oscar bait since two people who have played the character have won
    That's the only real respect everything else is subjective and based entirely on visibility
    Do you view Batwoman and Titans as good enough or do you need a movie with the Bat family or TV show
    Imo after they announced another Gotham show I'm kinda wondering if Batman will get over saturated no need to further cram his derivatives out there as well

  13. #28
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    I thought Tom Hardy's Bane was pretty damn awesome honestly. The Arkham Origins version was ruined far more by turning him into a amnesiac hulking monster than Hardy's was by revealing he was working with (not for) Talia.
    One movie Bane was a smart cunning guy, but he folded like a chair when he was punched in the face really hard.

    One movie Bane was the super strong imposing monster, but he was as dumb as a folding chair.

    They're basically each half of a good character. Combine the two and you're good, just don't make them the henchman of a female villain again. I don't know why they keep doing that.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Robin, the most crucial figure or figures in Bruce's life and legacy, sure get less respect than the Joker in all other media beyond comics, and I don't think there's any real controversy or argument about that.

    The following two images will represent my feelings on this trend.





    Get 'im, Robin!
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  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Robin, the most crucial figure or figures in Bruce's life and legacy, sure get less respect than the Joker in all other media beyond comics, and I don't think there's any real controversy or argument about that.

    The following two images will represent my feelings on this trend.





    Get 'im, Robin!
    Robin is currently on Tv, in cartoons and has been in movies so not too bad. The problem is that audiences responded so well to Joker that he made a billion.
    Robin on the other hand was something of a joke. DC is a business so they have to make money. No point pushing Robin if no one want's Robin or the versions of Robins we've had so far.

    DC needs to update and change peoples views on Robin. ala Hit Girl and X-23. Go Damian or go home.

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