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  1. #1
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    Default Should mutants have more of a presence outside the X-Books?

    Of course there is Franklin Richards who ain't going anywhere anytime soon...

    Personally I would like to see the Avengers move back to NYC and have a couple mutants join the team and be against going to Krakoa.

    As well new mutants be created in non-X-Books who are against going for serious reasons.

    Thoughts??

  2. #2
    Incredible Member scourge's Avatar
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    I think they should. Make more a part of the world at large and not just on mutant sex cult island.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Not till they get back to normal, no.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Not till they get back to normal, no.
    I am not talking about the X-Mutant, Krakoan sycophants.

    Characters like Justice and Ultra Girl who are not going to Krakoa and they verbalize it and speak against mutants going.

    Or new characters....say a teenage girl with super strength whose parents were killed by Apocalypse when he attacked NYC during Fall of The Mutants...she saw X-Factor saving people and considered them heroes...until Krakoa. She thinks any mutant who goes to the island is scum for siding the Apocalypse and when Cyclops comes to recruit her she basically tells him off.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    I've long stated that the X-men should be integrated into the Marvel Universe at large. It used to be that way. the mutants lived with human roommates, had human friends, joined other teams with Humans, dated humans... Now it's all mutants all the time... and if they do have any long standing human friends... BAM! They're mutants too now.

    For a book that likes to brag about how it's a metaphor about minorities or civil rights.... it's AMAZING how bad they've dropped the ball. Imagine if a book wanted to be about showing diversity and equality... but making a book where every person on the team was gay. All their friends where gay, the ones they date were gay, and anyone who wasn't before the relaunch... well they're gay now too. Or if they were Black... Just rounding up all the black characters and putting them on their own island and declaring it a kingdom. And still trying to cling to being 'progressive'. It's just madness.

    I want Iceman and Angel tor reform the Champions with Ghost Rider and Black Widow.... I want Beast back on the Avengers... I want these mutants spread out and with actual connections to all the other teams and threads and threats that the world faces.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Ultimately it depends if editors and others feel there's a reader interest sufficient enough to greenlight this.

    At present, Hickman's a major sales success, so unlikely to happen any time soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Characters like Justice and Ultra Girl who are not going to Krakoa and they verbalize it and speak against mutants going.
    So basically you want mutants to become cops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I've long stated that the X-men should be integrated into the Marvel Universe at large.
    What exactly do you mean by "integrating into the Marvel Universe at large"?

    It used to be that way. the mutants lived with human roommates, had human friends, joined other teams with Humans, dated humans... Now it's all mutants all the time... and if they do have any long standing human friends... BAM! They're mutants too now.
    The only humans that count are the paying readership in the real world who are paying more for the Krakoans than for any other Marvel title. In their eyes, these mutants are more relatable to them than these other overpowered mutates in tights.

    For a book that likes to brag about how it's a metaphor about minorities or civil rights.... it's AMAZING how bad they've dropped the ball. Imagine if a book wanted to be about showing diversity and equality... but making a book where every person on the team was gay. All their friends where gay, the ones they date were gay, and anyone who wasn't before the relaunch... well they're gay now too. Or if they were Black... Just rounding up all the black characters and putting them on their own island and declaring it a kingdom. And still trying to cling to being 'progressive'. It's just madness.
    Luke Amazing.jpg

    I want Iceman and Angel tor reform the Champions with Ghost Rider and Black Widow.... I want Beast back on the Avengers... I want these mutants spread out and with actual connections to all the other teams and threads and threats that the world faces.
    Yoda.jpg

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post

    So basically you want mutants to become cops?

    I want to see mutants treated as individuals with minds of their own as opposed to a pack of sycophants who jump on board when mass murderers like Apocalypse are treated as leaders and heroes.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I want to see mutants treated as individuals with minds of their own
    It's only in Krakoa where mutant individuality can be a real thing.

  9. #9
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    Mutants not having presence outside of the X-Books creates the problem of them being seen as a monolithic group and not as individuals, which is a problem many minorities face in real life.

    It also makes the X-Men come off like they only care about their own issues. If they're supposed to be a metaphor for the Civil Rights Movement, they should be everywhere. MLK Jr. didn't only fight for the rights of black people. After the Civil Rights Act, he went on to address classism and other forms of inequality. One of his most famous sayings is "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". That is actually one of my favorite things about Whedon's Cyclops - he tried integrating the team into the larger MU as opposed to the Cyclops in recent years.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 07-09-2020 at 07:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I am not talking about the X-Mutant, Krakoan sycophants.

    Characters like Justice and Ultra Girl who are not going to Krakoa and they verbalize it and speak against mutants going.

    Or new characters....say a teenage girl with super strength whose parents were killed by Apocalypse when he attacked NYC during Fall of The Mutants...she saw X-Factor saving people and considered them heroes...until Krakoa. She thinks any mutant who goes to the island is scum for siding the Apocalypse and when Cyclops comes to recruit her she basically tells him off.
    Oh well in that case, heck yeah have at it!

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post

    What exactly do you mean by "integrating into the Marvel Universe at large"?
    pretty much what i said. 'Segregation is wrong'. Grouping all your minorities together and giving them there own place/books/world etc. is wrong. There were times when Iceman would do random team ups... Wolverine was everywhere. He would guest star in Spider-man, Ghost Rider, Punisher... whatever. The entire code of the X-men was to fight for equality... not superiority. Fighting to protect a world that hates and fear them. Not taking their ball and ignoring the world unless it affects specifically mutants. There used to be mutants all over the Marvel universe teaming up and crossing over with all sorts of books. That's what i'd like to see them do again.

    The fact that the mutants sat back and ignored the Civil War and the registration act.... when for DECADES they've been fighting against registration is when I pretty much wrote them off. Now they're worse than ever.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I've long stated that the X-men should be integrated into the Marvel Universe at large. It used to be that way. the mutants lived with human roommates, had human friends, joined other teams with Humans, dated humans... Now it's all mutants all the time... and if they do have any long standing human friends... BAM! They're mutants too now.

    For a book that likes to brag about how it's a metaphor about minorities or civil rights.... it's AMAZING how bad they've dropped the ball. Imagine if a book wanted to be about showing diversity and equality... but making a book where every person on the team was gay. All their friends where gay, the ones they date were gay, and anyone who wasn't before the relaunch... well they're gay now too. Or if they were Black... Just rounding up all the black characters and putting them on their own island and declaring it a kingdom. And still trying to cling to being 'progressive'. It's just madness.
    Hickman's going for a deconstruction IMO, far too much effort has been put into staging the mutants that they're not good any longer. They're more like Bond villains in how frames them, especially Xavier.


    I want Iceman and Angel tor reform the Champions with Ghost Rider and Black Widow.... I want Beast back on the Avengers... I want these mutants spread out and with actual connections to all the other teams and threads and threats that the world faces.
    That'd be great. My theory is that Hickman's status quo can't be too intertwined with the Marvel at large because he wants an out when or if it ends (like it being another reality/time line) and wants to be able to put everything "back into the box" once he's finished.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    So basically you want mutants to become cops?
    Mutants are a species with millions of people, they're known having a wide variety of opinions on subjects. Krakoa would have its detractors and they don't have to be "cops" to do it. The irony of this comment when the X-men began as mutant cops for the FBI and various mutant teams have worked for the government to catch mutants, like X-factor.

  14. #14
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    For me, yes. I would like to see them more outside of the X-books. Perhaps they could do some team ups or even some join the avengers team.

  15. #15
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    The way I see it, if mutants had had more of a presence outside the X-related books, then other superheroes would have had to seriously address the ongoing issue of anti-mutant sentiment and policies among the people they protected and the government/authorities with which they cooperated, instead of shoving it into a corner and acting like they couldn't see what was being inflicted on mutants --- including mutants they knew, trusted, and respected as allies and fellow heroes --- by many of those same people and institutions. To me, that the Avengers and the Fantastic Four didn't raise a voice to speak or a finger to act about things like the Mutant Registration Act, but were ready to tear into each other over a Registration Act that expanded its reach to anyone and everyone with powers, mutant or not, says --- or at least implies --- a lot of unpleasant things about how they really look at and think about mutants. In fact, the last X-Men run before Jonathan Hickman's had mutants being threatened with state-sponsored medical genocide in the form of a vaccine that would negate the X-gene from ever expressing itself, which went into wide public distribution almost as soon as the X-Men were presumed dead and gone, and that was when they weren't just being outright hunted down and killed or experimented upon, and did anyone else stand up against that? Sadly, no, so as unsettling as Krakoa can be, it wouldn't have come to be seen as necessary if not for the rest of the world essentially abandoning mutants to genocidal extermination.

    If mutants were treated by Marvel at large as a full part of the Marvel Universe, we could have seen nonmutant superheroes forced to seriously reckon with anti-mutant sentiments and policies among the ordinary people they protected, or the law enforcement or other government agencies they assisted, and whether or not they were willing to stand up for their fellow heroes that were also mutants. Could have made for some very good storytelling, especially with the increased awareness now of things like unconscious or implicit bias and how that might've colored some of those superheroes' reactions or attitudes concerning the mutant plight. Furthermore, with growing awareness of systematic and institutionalized bigotry and how it deliberately distorts perspectives in order to make some people's suffering seem justified, deserved, or even necessary, if not simply inconsequential or irrelevant compared to others, that could also play a role in nonmutant superheroes reevaluating their relationships with agencies and institutions that have proven complicit in mutants' suffering and whether or not it would be worth it to continue those relationships. That would also be rife with potential for great storytelling, as well as good topical commentary on the possibility (or lack thereof, for the more cynical or radical) of those institutions that have historically repressed and abused those with less power in society being reformed into something that doesn't abuse or repress vulnerable people.
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