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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Krakoa is a character first and a land second. So even if Krakoa as a nation dissolves, the character and person of Krakoa, the Living Island, will continue and thrive for future writers to play around with. So I don't think it will end up quite like Genosha.

    Hickman has added a lot of mythos to Krakoa. Krakoa was once a vast landmass that was divided into Krakoa and Arrako, and those two islands are slowly being rejoined. So obviously there's going to be stuff to play around there.

    So there's a lot of balls in the air juggling in his run right now. Where does that go, who knows?

    To X-Men fans, while I share your defensiveness of Hickman's run and Krakoa nationhood, you must not burden Hickman and his writers with the unfair expectation of giving a happy ending. The story hasn't been fully told yet and obviously Hickman has some endgame in mind. You shouldn't burden Hickman and his crew with the false dichotomy that either they are on your side and so the skeptics against us are wrong and so on and so forth.

    My feeling is that by the end of this run, Hickman will find a way to resolve some of the conflicts and stories he's introduced, whether that leads to Krakoa being dissolved, the X-Men going back to the Mansion, the Krakoans splintering into factions again...who knows. Based on sales and editorial, and other factors, it could also lead to Krakoa continuing as a status-quo post-Hickman for future writers to play with or not.

    It's only been a year, less than a year on account of the pandemic delaying some comics from the scheduled release date. It's still too early to call it.

    Hickman is ultimately optimistic...but it's an optimism that earns itself. FF and Avengers started with bleak ideas when he wrote it but eventually ended on a note of hope and triumph ("Everything lives"). So by the end of the run you will have X-Men in a decent place and it will be up to other writers to step up.
    for me they can have a team book on the mansion playing superhero and whatever boring stories will be created from that, but the mansion just doesnt work for every other satelite tittle, krakoa does its a very flexible scene that allows various titles to florish with their distinct premisses while remaining connected.
    It's also visually distinct and has a very ressonant aestethic and iconigraphy.
    Sure have a 90's revival in the mansion fighting sentinels for ther 2390-19308591-30931 time, but have everyone else on the island.
    Last edited by Ferro; 07-15-2020 at 01:17 AM.

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Then argue and stuff we will....




    That is up to the writers...or the editors if they decide to step up and put their foot down and tell the writers to go in another direction. I have long thought they need to show the pro-mutant...or at least not anti-mutant...humans. All they have done it take it in one direction...negative...for more than 10 years. Look at after the Fall of The Mutants story line when X-Factor was in the news doing recovery and search and rescue....the people and the NYC government hailed them as heroes.



    The bad guys will show their true colors given time...and they will most likely be the downfall....mutants will show their own humanity and soon be at each others throats.



    Tell that to the people in the middle east during the Arab Spring who were trying to throw off the yoke of oppression....or the people in Hong Kong protesting the Chinese Communist Government and waving American Flags.
    the same place america has a taste for carpet bombing, drone strikes and removing democraticly elected leaders? are you really gonna bring up THE MIDDLE EAST as a place of american pride, like I said im outside the bubble of propaganda, so I'm not prone to beliving in bs.
    And the states hasn't lifted a finger to help hong kong, so waving a piece of fabric isnt that symbolic.


    Also, the mcu is funded by the department of defense and other bodies of goverment, its propaganda as well.
    Enjoy captain america all you want but there's a reason why he had such an easy transition into fascism, it's not about having no hope in humanity, i may have hope in individual americans, but never the state that stevotte wears the flag off and is a symbol of it's propaganda.
    Last edited by Ferro; 07-15-2020 at 01:25 AM.

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    the same place america has a taste for carpet bombing, drone strikes and removing democraticly elected leaders? are you really gonna bring up THE MIDDLE EAST as a place of american pride, like I said im outside the bubble of propaganda, so I'm not prone to beliving in bs.
    There are Captain America's who are with this, they're not Steve Rogers or Sam Wilson. There's John Walker, who became US Agent. Conservative, he'd agree with all of that, he's not very popular with fans for that reason. He's kind of like Guy Gardner.



    And there's Ultimate Captain America, who hated the French for being taken over in WWII. He's very controversial because of his conservative views.



    Steve Rogers was never a person who followed orders blindly, he's a patriot, not a conservative jingoist. He was created by two Jewish men who started his comics by punching Hitler in the face during a time period where being against the Nazis was a huge risk. They got death threats over that. Jack Kirby left comics to fight in that war, too.

    I highly recommend reading Captain America comics, like Englehart and Brubaker.

    Krakoa is not a fan of democratically elected leaders, on their own island or in other nations - they will put puppet kings in power who are known for being mentally unstable.

    Also, the mcu is funded by the department of defense and other bodies of goverment, its propaganda as well.
    Enjoy captain america all you want but there's a reason why he had such an easy transition into fascism, it's not about having no hope in humanity, i may have hope in individual americans, but never the state that stevotte wears the flag off.
    Except in his movies he's routinely gone against the government, the only one he didn't was when he was at war against Nazis in WWII. He's done this repeatedly in the comics, an iconic storyline was "Secret Empire (1974) written by Steve Englehart.

    https://www.polygon.com/comics/2017/...teve-englehart

  4. #259
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    the same place america has a taste for carpet bombing, drone strikes and removing democraticly elected leaders? are you really gonna bring up THE MIDDLE EAST as a place of american pride, like I said im outside the bubble of propaganda, so I'm not prone to beliving in bs.
    And the states hasn't lifted a finger to help hong kong, so waving a piece of fabric isnt that symbolic.


    Also, the mcu is funded by the department of defense and other bodies of goverment, its propaganda as well.
    Enjoy captain america all you want but there's a reason why he had such an easy transition into fascism, it's not about having no hope in humanity, i may have hope in individual americans, but never the state that stevotte wears the flag off and is a symbol of it's propaganda.
    Interesting you say that. Steve ALSO believes in individuals over the government. And says that quite often in his book as well. But, to know that you’d have to have actually have read a Cap run instead of being content to argue from a place of 100% ignorance on the character in question, like the people who show up for book club having only examined the cover.




    Last edited by capandkirby; 07-15-2020 at 08:44 AM.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    the same place america has a taste for carpet bombing, drone strikes and removing democratically elected leaders? are you really gonna bring up THE MIDDLE EAST as a place of american pride, like I said i'm outside the bubble of propaganda, so I'm not prone to believing in bs.
    And the states hasn't lifted a finger to help hong kong, so waving a piece of fabric isn't that symbolic.


    Also, the mcu is funded by the department of defense and other bodies of government, its propaganda as well.
    Enjoy captain america all you want but there's a reason why he had such an easy transition into fascism, it's not about having no hope in humanity, i may have hope in individual americans, but never the state that stevotte wears the flag off and is a symbol of it's propaganda.
    Wake up Ferro, with any luck Trump will be gone this fall. If the polling is any indication, there are more people who are against his policies. There were massive demonstrations. Do you even live in the U.S? BTW I corrected your spelling errors because I'm a bit fussy about that in case your wondering. Nothing sinister.

    I agree totally with what Chris0013. IMO writers are being lazy if all they show are the anti-mutant heroes. And someone has to point out the story to me where the Avengers are protecting anti-mutant protesters. I want to know the context and the writer of that issue.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    And there's Ultimate Captain America, who hated the French for being taken over in WWII. He's very controversial because of his conservative views.


    Just wanted to add that the Ultimates were mostly Mark Millar's handiwork wasn't it? Figures. But to be fair, it was probably around the time of the Bush administration's invasion of Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction.

  7. #262

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    firestar should be more prominent. she should lead her own group of heroes.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    firestar should be more prominent. she should lead her own group of heroes.
    She, as much or more than Vance, is pretty much one of the elder statesmen of 'young heroes' by this point, between her New Warriors and Avengers and X-Men runs. So yeah, her own team would definitely be a neat turn for Angelica.

  9. #264
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    It would make sense for the X-Men villains to interact more outside of X-Books....that would definitely make more sense....since their whole thing is to enslave the inferior human race. So where are they?

    And Earth 811 should show up more, I don't even mind an ongoing series in that reality.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    It would make sense for the X-Men villains to interact more outside of X-Books....that would definitely make more sense....since their whole thing is to enslave the inferior human race. So where are they?
    They are all pretty much supposed to be behaving themselves....and I still want to see how the Selene thing in Captain America is going to play out with regards to Krakoa.

    But a new mutant villain team that is not part of Krakoa would be interesting. Will Krakoa try to protect them? Fight them?? Denounce them???

  11. #266
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I prefer to call Krakoa...... New Genosha.
    Krakoa ... Utopia ... Genosha ... Avalon ... and whatever Emma's mutant nation was called in Secret Empyre and Scott's was called in Time Runs Out. It's all the same. Mutants should save themselves some time and just name their nnation's bullseye, because that's essentially what they are.

  12. #267
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    having other powered heroes in the same universe only makes the treatment of mutants as such somewhat shocking narratively.

  13. #268
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    Folks, Krakoa is a person first and a nation second. The Living Island is a character and because of that Krakoa will never die because it will always remain as a character and toy that writers want to play with.

    The nation of Krakoa and its habitat is not a guaranteed lasting status-quo but Krakoa as a character will remain and continue for other writers to do with as they please.

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Folks, Krakoa is a person first and a nation second. The Living Island is a character and because of that Krakoa will never die because it will always remain as a character and toy that writers want to play with.

    The nation of Krakoa and its habitat is not a guaranteed lasting status-quo but Krakoa as a character will remain and continue for other writers to do with as they please.
    Everyone knows in this context they're speaking about the nation, shortening it to Krakao is just common sense because otherwise nobody want to write "Krakoa, the nation" and how it's spoken about isn't hiding the intent.

  15. #270
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    Characters have been killed before and will be again in comics. Krakoa being a living island doesn't provide any immunity from dying and being resurrected the staple cycle that every comic character undergoes. Hell they have killed the Phoenix and the Sentry and kept them in limbo who were far more unkillable than Krakoa.

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