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  1. #46
    Fantastic Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justanotherclassic View Post
    That's the thing about a lot of systemic issues, a lot of times they're deeply imbedded and unintentional, but still have the added effect of excluding some pretty obvious people. It can be very off-putting, however, to be a part of those groups and have people discuss how they didn't think to include people like you. It's stuff like that that perpetuates the lack of women and POC in stories, and creates a vicious cycle. I'm not interested in stories as much if women aren't promoted as being included, because I've had enough 'sausage fest' stories. I'm not saying it won't be a good story, because it can be, but at the same time, I don't think quality would be lost by including Storm, Jean, or Rogue on the cover.

    Also, just to clarify as not to offend, I'm talking about the industry and not your comment specifically!
    ^This. By no means do I think that women, POC, and queer characters need to automatically be at the forefront of every comic or event, but if youíre going to advertise your book as affecting EVERYBODY and then only have white straight dudes on the cover Iím going to look at you sideways.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    ^This. By no means do I think that women, POC, and queer characters need to automatically be at the forefront of every comic or event, but if you’re going to advertise your book as affecting EVERYBODY and then only have white straight dudes on the cover I’m going to look at you sideways.
    Not you in particular, but your statement makes me SMH at how ppl really overthink the hell out of things nowadays, and insist on an all inclusive status quo that just feels forced.

  3. #48
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Not you in particular, but your statement makes me SMH at how ppl really overthink the hell out of things nowadays, and insist on an all inclusive status quo that just feels forced.
    Ah, the old "forced inclusivity" card.

  4. #49
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    ^This. By no means do I think that women, POC, and queer characters need to automatically be at the forefront of every comic or event, but if you’re going to advertise your book as affecting EVERYBODY and then only have white straight dudes on the cover I’m going to look at you sideways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Not you in particular, but your statement makes me SMH at how ppl really overthink the hell out of things nowadays, and insist on an all inclusive status quo that just feels forced.
    at a certain point the consistent use and promotion of the same crop of cis/straight/white/male characters becomes somewhat forced, while increasingly convoluted explanations are given as to why the existing array characters that break this mold have been sidelined again. just sayin

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Ah, the old "forced inclusivity" card.
    ^^^Yup.

    My men and I were watching an EOD blow in Afghanistan not long before I retired. We actually weren’t involved in it, we just stopped by to say hey to a few friends and watch the earth shattering kaboom.
    Anyway, a pic of the crew that -was- involved was being taken at the pit, and this Colonel walked up to me and said for me to jump in there because he wanted quote unquote, black representation when the pic made the rounds. I respectfully told him to get bent.

    Forced inclusivity is expletive deleted.
    If black ppl (or whatever your pet cause is that you feel had to be represented in every facet of everything that ever happens because yeah) aren’t involved, then they aren’t involved.

    Ive been black for 52 years, and in that time I’ve never stood for being excluded from anything just because I’m black. By the same logic, I’ve never felt I should be included in something just because I’m black.

    Now, I realize there are a lot of black ppl out there who will be black long after me, and if this new way of looking at things/being seen by others is how they wanna roll? That’s on them.
    But I’m going to voice my negative opinion of it while I’m still around.

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    ^^^Yup.

    My men and I were watching an EOD blow in Afghanistan not long before I retired. We actually weren’t involved in it, we just stopped by to say hey to a few friends and watch the earth shattering kaboom.
    Anyway, a pic of the crew that -was- involved was being taken at the pit, and this Colonel walked up to me and said for me to jump in there because he wanted quote unquote, black representation when the pic made the rounds. I respectfully told him to get bent.

    Forced inclusivity is expletive deleted.
    If black ppl (or whatever your pet cause is that you feel had to be represented in every facet of everything that ever happens because yeah) aren’t involved, then they aren’t involved.

    Ive been black for 52 years, and in that time I’ve never stood for being excluded from anything just because I’m black. By the same logic, I’ve never felt I should be included in something just because I’m black.

    Now, I realize there are a lot of black ppl out there who will be black long after me, and if this new way of looking at things/being seen by others is how they wanna roll? That’s on them.
    But I’m going to voice my negative opinion of it while I’m still around.
    What does American imperialism have to do with inclusivity in fictional comic book? I’m thinking nothing but I could be wrong.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    If thats what you got from my post?
    I'm thinking youve led a very privileged life where you get to judge ppl who's rucksacks you arent fit to carry.
    But i could be wrong.

    And yet another thread i wont be coming back into, as dealing w. pompous kids on this site isnt worth getting reported and banned over.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    They could have at least included Black Panther on the promo, he's the current leader of the Avengers, he had a billion dollar film, one of his current enemies is a symbiote

  9. #54
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    If thats what you got from my post?
    I'm thinking youve led a very privileged life where you get to judge ppl who's rucksacks you arent fit to carry.
    But i could be wrong.

    And yet another thread i wont be coming back into, as dealing w. pompous kids on this site isnt worth getting reported and banned over.
    You told everyone a story about tokenism feat. wartime buddies then tried to equate it to wanting to see inclusivity and centuries of dehumanization.

  10. #55
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Fi View Post
    He says every X-Men team will be involved:

    https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1281672036578779136
    Straight after X of Swords? Geez, let the books tell their own stories.
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  11. #56
    Incredible Member a moment closer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    You told everyone a story about tokenism feat. wartime buddies then tried to equate it to wanting to see inclusivity and centuries of dehumanization.
    Isn't it dehumanizing to ask someone to stand in a photo because of the color of their skin as faked inclusivity? A PR stunt to make white people look like they actually care about what you certainly care about? Just to appease you on a topical level? I would be more offended! As Riv86672 expressed. That is all. Why do you easily dismiss his legitimate feelings on this subject? His lived perspective as a Black man just because they don't align with yours? He wasn't arguing against actual inclusivity, just faked inclusivity.

    Let's see who's in the actual book when it hits the shelves. Don't scream insensitivity and exclusion based on one piece of promo art.

    And by the way, should I be offended that no white guys or Latinx or Asian or other POC are on the cover of Black Panther this month? No! Because that's insanity! And, how is that any different than what you're asking for? I'm buying Black Panther because I like the character and the story, maybe you should buy two copies in a show of support for your cause and not buy Venom. American Capitalism will then work for equal inclusion when it sees $$$. And you can have all the fake inclusivity art you want if you pay for it.

  12. #57
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Let's move the conversation back to the art and crossover. It's clear that we aren't going to agree on this. Maybe it's a generational thing, who knows. After all, we're just pompous kids with privileged lives.

  13. #58
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Agreed. I like Stegman’s art. Look forward to seeing him draw some more X-men. Should be fun. Hopefully this is contained to the event book, however, and doesn’t hijack the X-titles.

  14. #59
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    I just don't get why people want stories without the female heroes. Fake super-macho dudes are so strange to me. Don't like women in certain places but don't like the idea of dudes being into dudes either. Never makes sense to me lol

    The art is nice, but the way this is promoted tells me I'm out. They are 1-1 on the two male X-Men they chose too. At least spare us the laser eye guy if we have to deal with no X-Women being involved lol
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
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  15. #60
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    I dare say that half the characters on that cover will have almost zero influence in the actual event.

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