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  1. #46
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    This looks awesome. I hope Cates is right when he says that this is dark cosmic horror stuff. Absolute Carnage started out good, but gradually seemed to come apart towards the end. One theme I hope is hit on is the concept of the enemy/darkness within. Wars tend to give spaces for people to settle old grudges apart from the main conflict and indulge in violence against hated groups, as this goes well with the canon of symbiotes enhancing the negative emotions within people. People always talk about the mythos of Cthulhu rising to destroy the world, but that's not quite it. Cthulhu brings madness and barbarism in his wake, with people themselves being the ones who tear society apart. Putting together, this could result in a Dead Space/Crossed-type story taking historical cues from the violence directly after WWI and during WWII, where parts of the story are focused on normal people committing atrocities under Knull's influence, and not being done by Knull himself.
    "I should describe my known nature as tripartite, my interests consisting of three parallel and disassociated groups; a) love of the strange and the fantastic, b) love of abstract truth and scientific logic, c) love of the ancient and the permanent. Sundry combinations of these strains will probably account for my...odd tastes, and eccentricities."

  2. #47
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    Knull vs Venom Who is the King!

  3. #48
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    man it would be really messed up if t'challa or blackagar didnt throw hands with knull at some point
    Don't know what BB is doing these days, but if this is a company wide event I think it's almost certain he'll cross paths with T'challa as BP currently is leading the Avengers.

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Will Sentry still be in the Negative Zone? What about the Strike Force team? Any chance this could be the event that saves Monica and puts her back on a regular Avengers squad?

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Technically, several cosmoses were preceded by a void. But not all of them. Knull believes that he predates all of it, which contradicts First Firmament.

    According to the First Cosmos (aka First Firmament), there was no distinction between the void and everything else. It was all one and he/it embodied it. First Firmament created Aspirants (also called the Dark Ones) and the Celestials (called the Multicolored Ones). Presumably the Aspirants represent the "void" that Knull, Oblivion and other entities of that ilk reference. It's worth noting that both the Aspirants and the Celestials propagated life in the First Cosmos. It wasn't just the Celestials introducing life. I imagine both continued those roles in subsequent cosmoses. Kinda makes you wonder why Knull doesn't know that.

    Knull's origin would indicate that he came much, much later. We're told that he existed as a god in a previous incarnation and apparently had a full life with conquests and enemies prior to ever encountering the Celestials as part of the "void." For their part, the Celestials didn't know who he was. Or didn't care. They were just going about their work. They basically roused him from his comfy little coffin and he got pissed about it. But he had not heard of the Celestials or Aspirants in his previous incarnation.

    Obviously, nothing is ever set in stone and Marvel writers trash every notion of continuity in their shared fictional universe all of the time. I suspect we'll get the usual cop-out, which is that both First Firmament and Knull are wrong about the origin of everything. Knull is a god, and it's commonplace for a religion/myth/belief system to offer a creation myth which doesn't reconcile with the other religions/myths/belief systems. As for First Firmament, being a holistic abstract entity may also ironically limit its perceptions of reality and the complete truth. After all, First Firmament makes no mention of TOAA or an ultimate Creator. He thinks that he occupies that role.

    Whatever the case, for my dime I would appreciate it if the writers all sat down and hammered out the inconsistencies.
    You put too much stock in what Knull said. We saw that the war clearly took in the Seventh-Eighth Cosmos. Cates is also clearly aware of multiple Cosmoses since he writes a story about the previous one in Thor.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Will Sentry still be in the Negative Zone? What about the Strike Force team? Any chance this could be the event that saves Monica and puts her back on a regular Avengers squad?
    I sincerely hope that Sentry will be forgotten for at least a few years.
    With Strikeforce not only being cancelled, but also having its last issue axed, Blade still being in main Avengers, Bucky going off to pal around with Sam, and Spider-Woman getting an ongoing, etc. I doubt the team will continue in any capacity.
    EDIT: Also do you really want Aaron to butcher Monica?

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sataniel View Post
    You put too much stock in what Knull said. We saw that the war clearly took in the Seventh-Eighth Cosmos. Cates is also clearly aware of multiple Cosmoses since he writes a story about the previous one in Thor.
    I'm not that familiar with the character, so I can only take him at his word.

    And motivations matter. All of this helps me to appreciate the character and the threat that he presents. Right now he comes across as just another Amatsu-Mikaboshi, the so-called Chaos King. Hopefully, Cates can show a stark contrast between the two. Nothing worse than coming away from an event feeling like you've read that story before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sataniel View Post
    EDIT: Also do you really want Aaron to butcher Monica?
    In a perfect world Monica winds up on new Avengers book with a different creative team. Contraction due to Covid will sideline several characters, but if there is a way to squeeze Monica onto a current Avengers, or even X-Men team, I'd be happy. Hell, if they put her in this event, that might be enough to make me subscribe to King in Black. I didn't see her in any of the previews, but hoping for the best.



    Obiter dictums, random thoughts and other off-topic stuff:

    More women symbiotes would be nice. I wonder what Nightshade would look like as a symbiote?
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    I'm not that familiar with the character, so I can only take him at his word.
    That should be a good reason to not take him on his word. You don't know what he really knows. What was actually shown is way more trustworthy.

    And motivations matter. All of this helps me to appreciate the character and the threat that he presents. Right now he comes across as just another Amatsu-Mikaboshi, the so-called Chaos King. Hopefully, Cates can show a stark contrast between the two. Nothing worse than coming away from an event feeling like you've read that story before.
    Don't forget Nyx. I wouldn't complain if someone expanded DeMatteis's retcon of Chaos King being only an aspect of Oblivion to Knull and Nyx. Anyway, what could make Knull interesting is the contradiction at his core. He hates creation, but he is a very much example of physical creation. He hates Celestials, but he made Necrosword out of a matter that he took from Celestial. And based on the Necrosword he created a new race, furthering what he hates. But it seems that Cates's idea for Knull is just "Look at my Anti-Good. He is so cool, dark and metal" so that probably won't be addressed.


    In a perfect world Monica winds up on new Avengers book with a different creative team. Contraction due to Covid will sideline several characters, but if there is a way to squeeze Monica onto a current Avengers, or even X-Men team, I'd be happy. Hell, if they put her in this event, that might be enough to make me subscribe to King in Black. I didn't see her in any of the previews, but hoping for the best.
    In a perfect world, Aaron would be fired and someone competent would write Avengers instead. Alas. Anyway, I doubt we will see Monica either on Aaronverngers or anywhere near X-Men. I would suspect rather that she will appear in whatever Ewing will write in future.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Don't know what BB is doing these days, but if this is a company wide event I think it's almost certain he'll cross paths with T'challa as BP currently is leading the Avengers.
    Apparently in hiding. Though might be in a Darkhold book, not sure if it is still coming out.

  9. #54
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    And motivations matter. All of this helps me to appreciate the character and the threat that he presents. Right now he comes across as just another Amatsu-Mikaboshi, the so-called Chaos King. Hopefully, Cates can show a stark contrast between the two. Nothing worse than coming away from an event feeling like you've read that story before.
    There are definitely similarities, but some differences. Knull is the true form of the dragon from Beowulf. Also, he can be considered a 'fractured' god, as most of his children, the symbiotes, are spread across the universe, and indeed, mostly hate and fear Knull since he desires to re-consume them. Venom and Scream have defied him, while Carnage seeks to merge with him. The symbiotes that once made up the bulk of his body have evolved in a multitude of different ways that can be considerably different from the original strain. He is a god of chaos and the void like Amatsu, but while he originally had the same theme, he is now like a manifestation of broken evolution and self-consumption. With all of the symbiotes and their hosts amalgamated into Knull, imagine a bottomless pit of blood, symbiote fluid, endless rows of spiraling razor teeth and organs fused together in strange, unnatural ways

    Obiter dictums, random thoughts and other off-topic stuff:

    More women symbiotes would be nice. I wonder what Nightshade would look like as a symbiote?
    Well Scream has her own series right now. As to Nightshade, maybe she could get one of the remaining Life Foundation symbiotes.
    "I should describe my known nature as tripartite, my interests consisting of three parallel and disassociated groups; a) love of the strange and the fantastic, b) love of abstract truth and scientific logic, c) love of the ancient and the permanent. Sundry combinations of these strains will probably account for my...odd tastes, and eccentricities."

  10. #55
    Amazing Member JTHM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venomous Mask View Post
    Well Scream has her own series right now. As to Nightshade, maybe she could get one of the remaining Life Foundation symbiotes.
    Had. Scream had her own series. She was one of the digital books that have been quietly canceled, sadly.

  11. #56
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    Had. Scream had her own series. She was one of the digital books that have been quietly canceled, sadly.
    Really? All of my comics are in paper form, and their have been previews for later stories.
    "I should describe my known nature as tripartite, my interests consisting of three parallel and disassociated groups; a) love of the strange and the fantastic, b) love of abstract truth and scientific logic, c) love of the ancient and the permanent. Sundry combinations of these strains will probably account for my...odd tastes, and eccentricities."

  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sataniel View Post
    Don't forget Nyx. I wouldn't complain if someone expanded DeMatteis's retcon of Chaos King being only an aspect of Oblivion to Knull and Nyx.
    I'd never forget Nyx. I think she's an awesome addition to the Marvel Universe. I'd be particularly thrilled if she showed up again. Marvel doesn't have too many women that can actually wreck the universe by herself. I'd pay good money to see her take Odin down a few pegs the same way that she thoroughly trounced Zeus and the Olympians.

    I like to think that Oblivion, Knull, Nyx all tie back to the Aspirants somehow. Different incarnation, but same Void, so to speak. But I'm totally open to writers putting a different spin on the relationship. I just want them to make it distinct and entertaining.

    Anyway, what could make Knull interesting is the contradiction at his core. He hates creation, but he is a very much example of physical creation.
    Yep, it's why they say Creation is truly King. To be self-aware is to be a creative agent, whether one chooses to or not. This is particularly true of gods for whom a simple thought becomes reality. Agreed, I don't expect King in Black to delve too deeply into the metaphysics, or the eternal paradox on which creation and anti-creation are perched.


    I would suspect rather that [Monica] will appear in whatever Ewing will write in future.
    I like Ewing's writing style, but I'm not the biggest fan of his depowering Monica under the cliché that ultimate power compromises one's humanity. My experience has always been that elite levels of power only serve to reveal who a person is. Corruption is not a foregone conclusion. I work in a field that churns out young multi-millionaires every year. I can confirm that the bad apples were rotten before they ever made their first million, while the good ones didn't change, except to become more altruistic and fair-minded. It all goes back to a person's core foundation. I'd welcome a new writer who would embrace that same perspective vis-à-vis Monica. After all, that's generally how uber-powerful men are written in comics, whether we're talking about Superman or Franklin Richards. Besides, Monica shouldn't limit herself when there are so many powerful threats out there. I'm sure Nyx still has Monica at the top of her hit list for the role she played in her children's deaths. You don't go throwing away your best sword after you've pissed off a weyr of dragons.

  13. #58
    Amazing Member JTHM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venomous Mask View Post
    Really? All of my comics are in paper form, and their have been previews for later stories.
    The artist already confirmed that the series will end with the next number, which will only be digital. He even showed previews of his own work for later issues on twitter after the news of the cancellation. I am still very much pissed about, to be honest. I loved the book and Andi too.

  14. #59
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    Cates been milking this for everything it's worth.

    Honestly it's just more of the same stuff, look at how EDGY i am, look at how METAL i am. All the other characters will participate but they will be irrelevant or underwhelming but Brocks kid is gonna save everyone, making this a pointless event that could have just been done in Venoms own book but here at Marvel we have to throw out as many events as we can.

    I can't even begin to explain how refreshing it was when people asked Ewing if he is gonna do an event with Immortal Hulk considering the popularity of the book and the main villain The One Below All being a bit too much for it to not be an event and he said NOPE, it's gonna be a story that will conclude on the pages of Immortal Hulks own book. That actually blew me away, because you know the editors probably hassled him over turning this into an event and he refused, Cates on the other hand just finished a Venom event recently, gonna do another one now and i guarantee you he is gonna do at least 1(probably more) Thor related events soon.
    Last edited by Intothevoid; 07-13-2020 at 06:58 AM.

  15. #60
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    Cates been milking this for everything it's worth.

    Honestly it's just more of the same stuff, look at how EDGY i am, look at how METAL i am. All the other characters will participate but they will be irrelevant or underwhelming but Brocks kid is gonna save everyone, making this a pointless event that could have just been done in Venoms own book but here at Marvel we have to throw out as many events as we can.

    I can't even begin to explain how refreshing it was when people asked Ewing if he is gonna do an even with Immortal Hulk considering the popularity of the book and the main villain The One Below All being a bit too much for it to not be an event and he said NOPE, it's gonna be a story that will conclude on the pages of Immortal Hulks own book. That actually blew me away, because you know the editors probably hassled him over turning this into an event and he refused, Cates on the other hand just finished a Venom event recently, gonna do another one now and i guarantee you he is gonna do at least 1(probably more) Thor related events soon.
    I agree that Immortal Hulk not having an event is what makes the book all the more special.

    I think in this case - the problem actually lies in Absolute Carnage. Knull has been hyped as the “bid bad” since the opening of the run, so I can appreciate his arrival is going to be a huge deal. The Carnage story, however, could have easily have fit into the pages of Venom. So when this event finally came, there wasn’t much of a Venom-verse event fatigue and we were really pumped for it.

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