King in Black (2020)

[Tracks]

Another example of bad writing/mutants acting in villainous ways.

Its good writing, considering they almost refused to send the x-men as back up in x of swords for the same reason. People can say they disagree with the logic, but its definitely not bad writing

[Jabare]

just setting up the Mutants vs the Marvel Universe event

[Kurolegacy]

the x-men won that war tho, pretty sucessfully too, arakko homecoming next wendsday <3!
give it up to Arakko <3 #stanapocalypse #stangenesis #mutantsdoitbetta #captainbetsyforthewin #Avalon'smutant


and mutants did help, but blade is asking for the leaders of a nation to put said nation on the burner just to give knull more firepower, it's above all a stupid plan and the gates arent made for mass evacuation of humans either.

And if we can take a minute to step away from the blind fanboying for a minute and look at this objectively, what exactly is their plan B supposed to be if they turn down helping people, just shrug their shoulders and sit there with their thumbs up their asses while Knull ends everything? Lotta good their resurrection protocols would be with everything destroyed. Hell, if they don’t want to fight, they could at least help with getting people to safety. Even without using the gates, they have numerous teleported who can assist in that. But at the end of the day, there is no excuse in this scenario for them to choose to do nothing to help.

[Ferro]

And if we can take a minute to step away from the blind fanboying for a minute and look at this objectively, what exactly is their plan B supposed to be if they turn down helping people, just shrug their shoulders and sit there with their thumbs up their asses while Knull ends everything? Lotta good their resurrection protocols would be with everything destroyed. Hell, if they don’t want to fight, they could at least help with getting people to safety. Even without using the gates, they have numerous teleported who can assist in that. But at the end of the day, there is no excuse in this scenario for them to choose to do nothing to help.

The plan B xavier was trying to come up with that doesnt end with thousands of mutants and a sentient island corrupted by knull or the overload of the portals that simply aren't made for humans after they just lost 2 omegas and their general.

They are willing to help just not for blind heroism that won't even be usefull at the end of the day, to save lives that wouldn't do the same for them were the roles reversed.

Teleporters are better used getting krakoa to shiar space or any other contigency plan.

[Jabare]

I think it's more of a character change for the X-men. They use to be more aligned with activists on the frontline, community leaders, and organizers. Now with the creation of Krakoa, they are more akin to politicians and CEOs.

Ironically, I feel like the Mutant nation has adopted Magneto's mentality more than they've adopted Xavier's. Well, at least how Xavier use to be. The iconic characterization that most casual fans are familiar with.

[Ferro]

I think it's more of a character change for the X-men. They use to be more aligned with activists on the frontline, community leaders, and organizers. Now with the creation of Krakoa, they are more akin to politicians and CEOs.

Ironically, I feel like the Mutant nation has adopted Magneto's mentality more than they've adopted Xavier's. Well, at least how Xavier use to be. The iconic characterization that most casual fans are familiar with.

Magneto wouldn't have sent himself, two omegas and his main general to the frontlines that was xavier, he'd probably seek out a solution to kill knull and maybe his remaining enemies all at once in a probably reckless and dangerous endeavor, that would in restrospective reveal itsel a waste of time born out of pride and arrogance , when colaboration woul have been far more effective.

But xavier with said "iconic" characterization" would normally gladly sacrifice krakoa on the name of the "dream" to apease humans, but never really getting anything of value from said sacrifice, just some "you go champ" from captain america trough zoom and another statue on the graveyard to imortalize a new martyr, then he'd demean and manipulate his fellow mutants out of feeling the injustice of the situation.

So im happy to have a reasonable, yet pragmatic, balance betwen the two

[Jabare]

Magneto wouldn't have sent himself, two omegas and his main general to the frontlines that was xavier, he'd probably seek out a solution to kill knull and maybe his remaining enemies all at once in a probably reckless and dangerous endeavor, that would in restrospective reveal itsel a waste of time born out of pride and arrogance , when colaboration woul have been far more effective.

But xavier with said "iconic" characterization" would normally gladly sacrifice krakoa on the name of the "dream" to apease humans, but never really getting anything of value from said sacrifice, just some "you go champ" from captain america trough zoom and another statue on the graveyard to imortalize a new martyr, then he'd demean and manipulate his fellow mutants out of feeling the injustice of the situation.

So im happy to have a reasonable, yet pragmatic, balance betwen the two

No, Xavier wasn't stupid. The premiss of the X-men was that they live in a world that hates and fears them. Analogous to civil rights movements around race, gender, and sexual orientation. The notion that we all live in this world together, and you really can't make war on the human race, is sensible. Now the premiss is different. Mutants have their own nation, and I guess everyone is happy to live on Krakoa for the most part. Mutants have left modern society. They want to co-exist on the planet, but they don't need to integrate into Homosapien society.

In my opinion, during an end of the world scenario, a planet we all live on, it'd be all hands on deck. Some X-men were lost but so were other heroes. I think they need to be all in it together. And back to the issue, no one is asking the X-men to launch another attack, but more about helping with evacuation efforts. With every person, the symbiotes take over their power grows. Knull's power grows. Considering the resources and the abilities all these heroes could bring to bear, it wouldn't be difficult for them to evacuate citizens from outlying areas.

Or they could sit back and wait till there is a method to take down Knull. They don't need to help normal humans. This stance doesn't fit with the ethics and morals the X-men have traditionally held.

Still, just like the real world, it's not like every person who can help those in need does. That's why it reminds me more of your stereotypical politician or CEO's mindset. They might chip in for a cause, but they aren't going to bring their full might to bear.

The X-men didn't take action to be rewarded or praised. Most people never get rewarded for doing the right thing, but those selfless acts usually have positive lasting effects for the less fortunate communities. If not immediately, then later down the road. History doesn't forget. I'm just saying it's a different characterization. Look at how the Boys tv show resonates with fans. Maybe people relate to super-powered beings who are more calculated and self-serving. Doc Ock as Spider-Man resonated with a lot of people.

Will, see what happens. I think we are making a bigger deal about a line of dialogue than the author intended. That said, if the geniuses in the room are as smart as Marvel wants them to be, it wouldn't be hard to come with a few safe evacuation options for citizens in outlying areas. NYC, maybe even the state is probably lost, but you've got to set up a perimeter.
Similar to MLK and other activists his actions were

[Kurolegacy]

The plan B xavier was trying to come up with that doesnt end with thousands of mutants and a sentient island corrupted by knull or the overload of the portals that simply aren't made for humans after they just lost 2 omegas and their general.

They are willing to help just not for blind heroism that won't even be usefull at the end of the day, to save lives that wouldn't do the same for them were the roles reversed.

Teleporters are better used getting krakoa to shiar space or any other contigency plan.

And meanwhile, what exactly is stopping Knull from simply coming down to Krakoa and corrupting it and the mutants on it? Nothing because it’s part of the world that Knull has currently easily covered. Hell, the fact that he has corrupted mutants already, there’s nothing stopping him from using said corrupted mutants to get to Krakoa.

And for the ideology that teleporters are better used getting mutants to Shiar space, again, Knull isn’t just after Earth, he’s after everything. Earth falls and everyone else is next. The ‘save only ourselves’ mentality doesn’t work here no matter how much you want it to.

[JTHM]

I'm bored so I'd thought I'd point this out. I'm sure a lot of you are aware that Hulk was shown on the cover of King in Black #1; there was a podcast a couples months or so ago Donny Cates was apart of where he hinted Hulk's involvement in the event that was something like him being amongst the last line of defense and he would've battled Knull directly. This part was snuffed out due to the current events/storyline in Al Ewing's Immortal Hulk. Obviously this could be changed in later issues of the King in Black event but I exspect something even more minor than his cameo in Absolute Carnage.

Just something interesting I noticed, Cates' is usually the one who changes other comic runs to suit his main gig.

It's definitively interesting, albeit a bit strange. Couldn't Cates had set King in Black before the current debacle in Immortal Hulk? I suppose that would have conflicted against the Immortal Hulk One-shot tie in, but to be fair, it's not like that one-shot had anything really relevant to either books anyway.

[ARkadelphia]

I thought about it and, you’re right, in that it captures exactly what’s been wrong w. Hickman’s X-Men.

They’re no longer heroes.

You nailed it!

[ARkadelphia]

just setting up the Mutants vs the Marvel Universe event

Too obvious. I see this ending as Summers clan vs Krakoa.

[Lucyinthesky]

I disagree this is just bad characterization but well they are just the new Namor in the eyes of the rest of the heros or marvel is once again leading towards a new AvX.

Also Magneto ran an island with a population of mutants and humans, I think Krakoa reflects more Avalon to him or Israel and he has been helping them since the first Secret Wars and more recently Axis, AvX and Secret Empire without any problem.

The plan looked more like he and Xavier agreed to attack at the same time the Avengers did with no plan at all. The plan is just bad, they will not defeat Knull by fighting him directly and oppening the gates to Krakoa just will give him hundreds of powerful mutants to kill or control when he wants to, it would made more sense if they planted new gates that lead out of earth or maybe a refuge with the Inhumans, the Shiar or the Kree/Skrull empire but that would just give them some time. What they really need to do is use the time they have to develop a better plan and maybe use the symbiote weakness for sound or fire.

[Huntsman Spider]

No, Xavier wasn't stupid. The premiss of the X-men was that they live in a world that hates and fears them. Analogous to civil rights movements around race, gender, and sexual orientation. The notion that we all live in this world together, and you really can't make war on the human race, is sensible. Now the premiss is different. Mutants have their own nation, and I guess everyone is happy to live on Krakoa for the most part. Mutants have left modern society. They want to co-exist on the planet, but they don't need to integrate into Homosapien society.

In my opinion, during an end of the world scenario, a planet we all live on, it'd be all hands on deck. Some X-men were lost but so were other heroes. I think they need to be all in it together. And back to the issue, no one is asking the X-men to launch another attack, but more about helping with evacuation efforts. With every person, the symbiotes take over their power grows. Knull's power grows. Considering the resources and the abilities all these heroes could bring to bear, it wouldn't be difficult for them to evacuate citizens from outlying areas.

Or they could sit back and wait till there is a method to take down Knull. They don't need to help normal humans. This stance doesn't fit with the ethics and morals the X-men have traditionally held.

Still, just like the real world, it's not like every person who can help those in need does. That's why it reminds me more of your stereotypical politician or CEO's mindset. They might chip in for a cause, but they aren't going to bring their full might to bear.

The X-men didn't take action to be rewarded or praised. Most people never get rewarded for doing the right thing, but those selfless acts usually have positive lasting effects for the less fortunate communities. If not immediately, then later down the road. History doesn't forget. I'm just saying it's a different characterization. Look at how the Boys tv show resonates with fans. Maybe people relate to super-powered beings who are more calculated and self-serving. Doc Ock as Spider-Man resonated with a lot of people.

Will, see what happens. I think we are making a bigger deal about a line of dialogue than the author intended. That said, if the geniuses in the room are as smart as Marvel wants them to be, it wouldn't be hard to come with a few safe evacuation options for citizens in outlying areas. NYC, maybe even the state is probably lost, but you've got to set up a perimeter.
Similar to MLK and other activists his actions were

Fair point, although honestly, I think the only reward the X-Men (and mutants as a whole) have ever truly wanted, much like so many persecuted peoples in real life, is simply for the rest of the world to stop trying so hard to stomp them out of existence for the crime of being different from everyone else. Krakoa is the ultimate manifestation of that: "Since you (humanity) won't leave us (mutants) alone, we're going to make our own society, our own nation, our own culture, and then we'll make sure you can't destroy it (and us) this time, or ever again." To me, it's really just them having enough of being constantly hunted and hounded and targeted for wholesale extermination despite all their past efforts to be a bridge between mutantkind and humankind. That's all there is to it, in the end.

[Jabare]

Fair point, although honestly, I think the only reward the X-Men (and mutants as a whole) have ever truly wanted, much like so many persecuted peoples in real life, is simply for the rest of the world to stop trying so hard to stomp them out of existence for the crime of being different from everyone else. Krakoa is the ultimate manifestation of that: "Since you (humanity) won't leave us (mutants) alone, we're going to make our own society, our own nation, our own culture, and then we'll make sure you can't destroy it (and us) this time, or ever again." To me, it's really just them having enough of being constantly hunted and hounded and targeted for wholesale extermination despite all their past efforts to be a bridge between mutantkind and humankind. That's all there is to it, in the end.

Yes, this is what's so interesting. People have paralleled the X-men like that for a long time. Yet now they've taken a high minded comic book concept of giving them their own Utopia, which is wholly unfeasible for any real-world group. Is that the dream/goal? Instead of globalization, integration should we separate into our individual tribes? Again totally unrealistic in our world, but when Mutants are gods, you can pull it off.

I won't get into the hypocrisy of society ostracizing mutants yet embracing other super-powered beings. That's why sometimes the X-men work better in their own universe because the world view often doesn't make sense in a world with the other heroes.

[SwordOfArakko]

Do not forget that mutants are not just people with the power to control the climate, change reality or read minds. There are mutants whose gene x provides only physical deformations, unviable skills for battle, among other things difficult to be called gifts or powers, not to mention children and normal mutants who have never had any involvement in battle. It is these mutants who need all the protection and support from the leaders of Krakoa, who have even disabled the activities of the X-Men. The X-Men name and team currently does not officially exist in Krakoa. They are all MUTANTS, some not as powerful as others. Magneto and Professor X stand as leaders of their people and not leaders of a group of superheroes.

Sorry about my english