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  1. #16
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    Black Lightning. "Well, everything went white, and now everyone's on the ground moaning again. Lightning powers are the worst."

    Green Lantern. "Can we do something about these green shields that are *always* between the camera and everything else? The green glowy thing hit the other green thing, and then the green guys were doing something, and then more green happened?"

    Shadow Lass/Nightshade/Phantom Lady/Dr. Midnite. "Welp, I didn't see anything, again. I take it back, *darkness powers* are the worst."

    Flash. [hurk] "Scuse me, gonna hurl. Motion sickness."
    Last edited by Sutekh; 07-12-2020 at 01:44 AM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Now that I think about it, I wonder if Power Rings secretly record whatever the GL's do so the Guardians can review it.
    Good question. If they do, you'd have to wonder how Sinestro got away with as much as he did before The Guardians came down on him.

    I does get a bit scary. Do the Guardians tweak their GLs attitudes when they recharge to keep them fearless?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Black Lightning. "Well, everything went white, and now everyone's on the ground moaning again. Lightning powers are the worst."

    Green Lantern. "Can we do something about these green shields that are *always* between the camera and everything else? The green glowy thing hit the other green thing, and then the green guys were doing something, and then more green happened?"

    Shadow Lass/Nightshade/Phantom Lady/Dr. Midnite. "Welp, I didn't see anything, again. I take it back, *darkness powers* are the worst."

    Flash. [hurk] "Scuse me, gonna hurl. Motion sickness."

  3. #18
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superheroes should deal with corruption within their own ranks first.
    They don't have ranks. They're independent individuals doing their own thing. The Justice League is almost like a superhero union, but they don't have corruption.

    If there was a costumed adventurer who was corrupt, they'd be treated like any other villain or criminal.

  4. #19
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I'm with you. Frankly, it bugs me how often they don't go after corrupt authority figures. It's the corporate nature of their existence rearing its ugly head.
    For sure, it hurts not seeing Aquaman just topple pollution and stuff like factory fish farming- every once in a while he skirts the idea but we both know he would just take care of shit like that.

    Or Superman not exposing crimes of the wealthy elite, that'd be a typical Tuesday for any of the Justice League.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-12-2020 at 07:15 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    They don't have ranks. They're independent individuals doing their own thing.
    This is most certainly not how superheroes are depicted. At least not currently. There is very clearly a hierarchy among the League and among other superheroes. The Green Lanterns are cops for crying out loud.


    The Justice League is almost like a superhero union, but they don't have corruption.
    Identity Crisis

    Cry For Justice

    Tower Of Babel

    Brother Eye

    Heroes In Crisis

    And a whole bunch of other moments (especially what Batman has done) say otherwise.

    If there was a costumed adventurer who was corrupt, they'd be treated like any other villain or criminal.
    Not if they're popular enough. See some of the stories I listed above. Black Canary faced no consequences for the mindwipes and the Trinity should have had the book, hell the entire goddamn law library thrown at them, for what they did in Heroes in Crisis.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    it would be a poor idea. Superheroes aren't cops, they're typically vigilantes and therefore still private citizens. some are sanctioned by the government but most aren't. it's a slippery slope tracking cameras on these individuals, plus most have secret identities and/or operate out of secret bases, a body cam would be a liability.

    then there is the metatextual reading of the move, which I feel conflicts with the concept of superheroes.
    I didn't make it clear enough. The point of this thread is not that superheroes are authority figures, it just asks how would they perceived by the public if everything they do could be monitored?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    For sure, it hurts not seeing Aquaman just topple pollution and stuff like factory fish farming- every once in a while he skirts the idea but we both know he would just take care of shit like that.

    Or Superman not exposing crimes of the wealthy elite, that'd be a typical Tuesday for any of the Justice League.
    That's what Superman started out doing, before his publishers watered him down. Even if WB had the nerve to have their superheroes go after institutional corruption, some blockhead at Faux News would probably start castigating DC for turning superheroes into terrorists.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    That's what Superman started out doing, before his publishers watered him down. Even if WB had the nerve to have their superheroes go after institutional corruption, some blockhead at Faux News would probably start castigating DC for turning superheroes into terrorists.
    Yeah, but there was also threatening and beating people for confessions - things that make innocent people confess just to make it stop in the real world. Honestly, I think most superheroes need to stay far, far away from speaking out against warrantless searches, police brutality, etc. if they don't want to be seen as absolutely major hypocrites. At least, any who do any kind of street-level work.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-12-2020 at 07:40 AM.

  8. #23
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    The correct answer is obviously Superman. He tries to use diplomacy but won't hesitate to crack a skull when talking fails. He does tons of "PR" stuff like saving cats from trees, and tries to control and direct the flow of a fight so no innocents get killed and is overall just so damn competent he almost never makes a real mistake. I mean, we might as well talk about who *else* would look good, because obviously Superman wins this discussion.

    Flash would look pretty good too. He'll try diplomacy but, especially with established criminals like the Rogues, is willing to punch first and always makes sure to evacuate civilians from an area before things get crazy, and I suspect people would love watching him use science in fun ways to defeat villains. He makes plenty of mistakes but is so damn earnest and blue collar I think most people would cut him a lot of slack.

    I don't think Wonder Woman would end up looking *as* good as those two. She'll keep trying to talk things out long after most people would've accepted it's wasted effort, incurring a lot of "why is she so soft on crime?" debates, and in a fight she's just scary as hell even when she's holding back, which would incur a lot of "why is she so violent?" discussion. I know, that's a weird paradox but....people are dumb and Diana is a complicated person. Not to mention she's a badass woman and there are still people out there who're real uncomfortable with strong badass women.

    But I agree with those saying the idea of heroes wearing body cams is contrary to the superhero genre; these aren't first responders or cops, they're vigilantes acting outside the system and while the law tends to turn a blind eye to them, they're still technically outlaws.
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  9. #24
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    This is most certainly not how superheroes are depicted. At least not currently. There is very clearly a hierarchy among the League and among other superheroes. The Green Lanterns are cops for crying out loud.
    The Green Lantern Corps is more of a peacekeeping, humanitarian outfit than "cops". They're more Starfleet than law enforcement, especially since they operate in thousands and thousands of different "legal" zones.

    The only hierarchy to superhero characters comes the reader, Superman is just a man trying to fight the good fight. Batman is just a man who investigates weird crimes and various heinous acts. Wonder Woman and Aquaman are adventurers and emissaries from other worlds.

    The fact that I'd rather have Batman at my aid than Booster Gold doesn't mean they're an organization with various rungs. We just know Batman is more efficient and legendary because we read his adventures. In-universe the general public might feel the same way about Superman in regards to the Elongated Man, because they've barely heard of one but see the other one go to bat for them constantly.

    Sure, there's been stories where Martian Manhunter betrayed the JL or Batman built some wacky information satellite- but those things are dealt with. Superman isn't turning a blind eye, because of a systemic problem within the Justice League or whatever.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-12-2020 at 09:12 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    ...That's what Superman started out doing, before his publishers watered him down. Even if WB had the nerve to have their superheroes go after institutional corruption, some blockhead at Faux News would probably start castigating DC for turning superheroes into terrorists.
    Yeah, but there was also threatening and beating people for confessions - things that make innocent people confess just to make it stop in the real world. Honestly, I think most superheroes need to stay far, far away from speaking out against warrantless searches, police brutality, etc. if they don't want to be seen as absolutely major hypocrites. At least, any who do any kind of street-level work.
    It can actually work for some interesting self-examination stories. From time to time, writers will have Superman take on would-be-conquistador states, but such stories usually end with Superman concluding that he shouldn't be altering the geopolitical landscape for us. It works if used sparingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    For sure, it hurts not seeing Aquaman just topple pollution and stuff like factory fish farming- every once in a while he skirts the idea but we both know he would just take care of shit like that.

    Or Superman not exposing crimes of the wealthy elite, that'd be a typical Tuesday for any of the Justice League.
    Another tough part about having superheroes go after predatory systemic institutions is that they often don't provide the kind of high-risk adventure superhero comic fans seem to prefer. Seeing Green Lantern out corporate farm that's employing slave labor, or Superman exposing a bank that's crushing peoples' credit scores by creating fake loans, just isn't the same as seeing them take on Sinestro or General Zod. Sure, you could have Justin Hammer-esque corporate scumbags here and there that keeps a stable of super-enforcers to add the action sequences. However, it might strain things a bit to make out that every fat-cat in the DCU has such a staff.

    I do think it's worth having superheroes occasionally reach back to Superman's roots and go after injustice rather than crimes or disasters. As with having superheroes go after rogue nation-states, such stories should be used sparingly.

  11. #26
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Superheroes aren't law enforcement, they're just people trying to help or adventurers derring-do.

    I think it's harmful, narratively, to see them as "authority figures".
    But narratively that's usually what they end up being in the situations they're depicted as being in whether it be stopping crimes or saving people from their worse vices and putting them on a better path.

    I mean, Diana and Arthur are both royalty and that already carries an air of authority in everything they do. Flash is actually a police officer in his other identity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I'm with you. Frankly, it bugs me how often they don't go after corrupt authority figures. It's the corporate nature of their existence rearing its ugly head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    For sure, it hurts not seeing Aquaman just topple pollution and stuff like factory fish farming- every once in a while he skirts the idea but we both know he would just take care of shit like that.

    Or Superman not exposing crimes of the wealthy elite, that'd be a typical Tuesday for any of the Justice League.
    I think we just usually assume that stuff is happening off-screen since it's such a "given" that they are dealing with that stuff in-between fighting more major villains/crimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Good question. If they do, you'd have to wonder how Sinestro got away with as much as he did before The Guardians came down on him.
    Someone like Sinestro could probably fix the ring to where it would just send back generic reports rather then what was really going on.
    I does get a bit scary. Do the Guardians tweak their GLs attitudes when they recharge to keep them fearless?
    I think there was a retcon that the Power Ring lobotomized GL's to be fearless when they're in action.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    The Green Lantern Corps is more of a peacekeeping, humanitarian outfit than "cops". They're more Starfleet than law enforcement, especially since they operate in thousands and thousands of different "legal" zones.
    They make arrests and imprison people though.

  12. #27
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I go with Superman and Nightwing. Neither are pacifists, both can get very violent, but its not often you can think of occasions with these two guys where its not warranted.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 07-12-2020 at 11:59 AM.
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  13. #28
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    They make arrests and imprison people though.
    Starfleet can arrest people too, but they aren't cops. It just depends on the severity and specific jurisdictions. If someone is committing genocide against another race, the GLs have to step in. They're not police though, just an organization that keeps peace, explores sectors, and acts as humanitarian (for all sentient life) aid. We've seen them engage in intergalactic combat, but that's usually against Sinestro or some crazy warlord space nonsense.

    Sure there's minor discrepancies in depictions, these characters have been ongoing for a long time, but that's the core concept.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-12-2020 at 01:53 PM.

  14. #29
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I didn't make it clear enough. The point of this thread is not that superheroes are authority figures, it just asks how would they perceived by the public if everything they do could be monitored.
    hmmm, well in that case, I definitely see a Watchmen/the People vs the Justice League by Christopher Priest situation going down where the people start to have their faith in heroes shaken. Sure a Superman or a Black Lightning or a Flash would be fine but heroes like certain magic users, Batman, and his extended batfamily all adhere to a more cloak and dagger approach because the are not all powerful; their mystique is an asset they have to use to be effective. that divide of heroes who need that separation from the public eye and those who don't have to worry about that will create a split in public opinion. talking about it out loud, I wouldn't mind seeing that done...well...none of that half-ass noise.

    but let's say there are no broader complications and everyone who wants to bodycam can bodycam without undermining the superheroes as an institution in society, Vixen and Superman would probably come away looking the best. Superman is Superman, he's far to clean cut and kinda vanilla to trip up on camera doing anything problematic, his rapport with those he rescue usually goes over well, he's a public identity now and is powerful enough that no real harm could come of him if any information came out; easy adjustment.

    Vixen would come out great because, like clark, she's a public persona and extremely powerful so identifiable information leaking is a non-issue. also she's an international hero, rich, a model, and a philanthropist, she could easily spin her bodycam footage into good PR if she takes it would her not just to fight crime on the ground but also during philanthropic endeavors in interesting places. it's like if Bruce Wayne was allowed to flex while being Batman.
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  15. #30
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Starfleet can arrest people too, but they aren't cops. It just depends on the severity and specific jurisdictions. If someone is committing genocide against another race, the GLs have to step in. They're not police though, just an organization that keeps peace, explores sectors, and acts as humanitarian (for all sentient life) aid. We've seen them engage in intergalactic combat, but that's usually against Sinestro or some crazy warlord space nonsense.

    Sure there's minor discrepancies in depictions, these characters have been ongoing for a long time, but that's the core concept.
    Yeah, but they don't just limit the crimes they patrol and arrest for to genocide, it can be any kind of crime like smuggling, trafficking, etc.

    There are actual intergalactic laws they cite when they arrest someone.

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