Marvels “push” of the FF...has it worked?

[your_name_here]

So I’ve recently just noticed that Marvel are giving the FF abit of a steady push again.
We’ve had them be stars in the Annihilation crossover, thus tying them back into all things cosmic, they’re crossing over with the X-Men and Empyre is pretty much a FF/Avengers crossover.
It seems like Marvel are wanting to give the FF a highlight they’ve not had for quite some time...reintegrating them with the MU after their departure to make the key players again.

Question is: do you think it’s working? Does it feel like they “fit in” again after being sidelined for however long it was? Is there anything more we’d like to see from them?

And also we then go the main title...is everything Slott is doing what’s best the franchise at the moment, if Marvel really are trying to push them to the frontline again?

[Chris0013]

I've enjoyed it...but I did not read them for a long time before this current re-launch.

I like that Ben and Alicia finally tied the knot. And Johnny's feelings of 'why haven't I found true love..."...but think finding a soul mate on another planet was a bit of a stretch. I would have had him go thru a series of dates that just don't work out because instead of being 'fun Johnny' he is trying for a deeper connection and the women aren't looking for that until he reconnects with Cole Whitman (Wizard's daughter) and they click.

I also understand people's negative reaction to it being "Slott writing his Doom story and his Mole Man story, etc..."

[Billy Maximoff]

I for one find the FF's main book completely boring and hope a new writer will come along and hopefully soon, on the other hand I've really enjoyed reading the FF in crossovers and I hope Marvel keeps it up, I'm quite interested in Mark Waid's FF series that comes out next month.

[DoodleMaster]

I was excited for the FF relaunch until I heard that Slott was doing it. I just can't connect with his plotting or dialogue - he is also why I dropped Iron Man. I enjoyed seeing Ben and Alicia finally tie the knot - that was long overdue. But other characterization, especially the kids, left me cold. I gave it 10 issues then dropped it. Anyone know how the sales are doing?

[U.N. Owen]

Their main book is so boring that their "push" feels more like them riding the coat tails of more famous teams like the Avengers and X-Men. They don't feel essential or grand. They're just there, supporting characters. They even feel like supporting characters in their own book.

Slott's priorities seem to be glorifying Ben Grimm. It's asinine since Reed, Sue, and the kids barely do anything since they were on an editorial induced sabbatical for three years.

[Triniking1234]

The main book needs to come out at least 2 times a month but at least it's on par with Aaron's Avengers. It's still getting overshadowed by events, Spider-Man and Hickman X-Men.

The Annihilation and Silver Surfer mini-events didn't work cuz it got buried by other crap. Grand Design was crap. F4 x X-Men isn't that good.

Thanks, Disney.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Their main book is so boring that their "push" feels more like them riding the coat tails of more famous teams like the Avengers and X-Men. They don't feel essential or grand. They're just there, supporting characters. They even feel like supporting characters in their own book.

Slott's priorities seem to be glorifying Ben Grimm. It's asinine since Reed, Sue, and the kids barely do anything since they were on an editorial induced sabbatical for three years.

There's nothing wrong with a series that has an internal focus disconnected from the "Marvel Universe". IMMORTAL HULK is like that too but it had an urgency and interest and style that made it an essential book despite focusing so much interior focus.

In the case of Slott, much like Aesop's fable of the Jackdaw and the Eagle, "his strength was not up to the task".

[Iron Maiden]

I was excited for the FF relaunch until I heard that Slott was doing it. I just can't connect with his plotting or dialogue - he is also why I dropped Iron Man. I enjoyed seeing Ben and Alicia finally tie the knot - that was long overdue. But other characterization, especially the kids, left me cold. I gave it 10 issues then dropped it. Anyone know how the sales are doing?

The FF still ranks in the top 50 but that's a low bar. The Fantastic Four used to regularly be in the top 20 but that has been a while now.The last time they went head to head in March, Doctor Doom's solo series outsold Slott's Fantastic Four. Admittedly that was a rebound of sorts for the Doom series. It gained about 10,000 readers from February. It's uncertain if that series will keep that momentum when it returns in September. Or if the Fantastic Four sales will continue to slide downward.

[JudicatorPrime]

Every now and then I can enjoy a good FF story, but I can't read the title for long spells. Push or no push.

In a way they're like family that you were raised with and by, but eventually the time comes when you move out and you can't go back. We're all just biologically hardwired to start our own family and move forward with our own core unit.

In order for me to subscribe religiously to FF, the team would need to evolve into something new and fresh. I no longer care about the Richards family dynamic, although I very much like Sue and Ben. Have Sue divorce Reed and start a new team. Send Reed off to academia, or space, or lose him somewhere in the time stream. I don't care where. If we get a hankering for Reed, just have his evil doppelganger, the Maker, turn up from time to time. Reed has never been essential to my appreciation of the FF. But Sue is.

As for Johnny, permanently end him. Frankly, they could have killed off Johnny back in 1961. He's one of those characters that I'd likely appreciate more in death than in life. And no resurrections, no Franklin reality warping Uncle Johnny back into existence. A family should have some kind of enduring tragedy that forever scars and binds it.

With Reed MIA and presumed KIA and Johnny eternally dirt-napping, the FF would become a whole lot more interesting to me. Bring in two more members to follow Marvel's First Matriarch, Sue Storm, and the ever irascible Ben Grimm. Still a family, but different. Start the next push there.

[CaptCleghorn]

I for one find the FF's main book completely boring and hope a new writer will come along and hopefully soon, on the other hand I've really enjoyed reading the FF in crossovers and I hope Marvel keeps it up, I'm quite interested in Mark Waid's FF series that comes out next month.

This is a common attitude on these boards regarding a dissatisfaction with Slott's FF tenure. Many parts of these arguments I agree with, others I disagree with. These points are being discussed on other FF threads and points are made on both sides. But it's pretty much a fact that Slott isn't being received with the same reaction as Claremont on FF, Miller on DD, David on Hulk, or Simonson on Thor (not meant to be a complete list).

The FF was a truly revolutionary concept with its introduction in 1961. The juxtaposition of home and superheroing never was so real (or less unreal, ymmv). We see adult TV drama like the Sopranos and Breaking Bad doing the same mix with their tropes of family vs. borderline unreal "work" lives. The mix is what makes the FF, the FF. Relying on one vs. the other hampers potential. Franklin's an a-hole now? Sure, how many 15 yr old boys have you met?

One of the FF's problems is they have remained stagnant of the decades. The rest of superhero books have caught up with it. Do the FF deserve a push? Hell, yes! Slott is dealing with family, introducing new concepts and characters, and advancing relationships. This is what we've been screaming an FF writer should do. Slott's problem is he's not doing it well enough or to our satisfaction. In situations where he should swing for the fences, he misses wildly. In situations where he should bunt to advance a runner, he fails to send to ball far enough to be useful. If we were HS English teachers reading a student's creative writing, he'd get A for effort as he's trying to do exactly what he should be trying to do. But he isn't a student and trying hard isn't worth everyone's $4 a month.

[your_name_here]

One of my main grumbles is that their return didn’t do much of a service as to why they went away anyway. When they returned it was purely business as usual. I would’ve liked a better reason than “The Griever” as to why they had to return...something like they HAVE to be back in the MU because it needs them to be. Not just “because.”

Oh the upside, I’m glad Reed is still rocking the beard

[The BaRoN]

Slott just isn't doing it for the FF

His Spider-man wasn't Spider-man, his Ironman was a slow burner with zero results and his FF is just boring.

The return story was lacklustre and rushed with no heart in it.

The one story he did with them exploring space was so dull and stupid, his dialog is awful and very dated.

Thing v Hulk 2 parter was pointless filler

He doesn't get the characters at all, he never got spider-man and he doesn't get the FF.

He shat on parker every single issue because HE believed that he shouldn't ever be happy, Spencer proved that to be a load of bollocks straight away.

Reed, Sue and Johnny are nothing characters in his FF and Franklin is written like a horrible little turd.

Thank god it's Ewing doing the bulk of Empyre, I hope the FF appear in King in Black so we can see Cates have a go as well.

It's the 60th anniversary of the FF next year, they need a big push and a decent writer.

Medina on art is decent but they deserve Larraz, Silva, Asrar or Stegman full time.

[Billy Maximoff]

This is a common attitude on these boards regarding a dissatisfaction with Slott's FF tenure. Many parts of these arguments I agree with, others I disagree with. These points are being discussed on other FF threads and points are made on both sides. But it's pretty much a fact that Slott isn't being received with the same reaction as Claremont on FF, Miller on DD, David on Hulk, or Simonson on Thor (not meant to be a complete list).

The FF was a truly revolutionary concept with its introduction in 1961. The juxtaposition of home and superheroing never was so real (or less unreal, ymmv). We see adult TV drama like the Sopranos and Breaking Bad doing the same mix with their tropes of family vs. borderline unreal "work" lives. The mix is what makes the FF, the FF. Relying on one vs. the other hampers potential. Franklin's an a-hole now? Sure, how many 15 yr old boys have you met?

One of the FF's problems is they have remained stagnant of the decades. The rest of superhero books have caught up with it. Do the FF deserve a push? Hell, yes! Slott is dealing with family, introducing new concepts and characters, and advancing relationships. This is what we've been screaming an FF writer should do. Slott's problem is he's not doing it well enough or to our satisfaction. In situations where he should swing for the fences, he misses wildly. In situations where he should bunt to advance a runner, he fails to send to ball far enough to be useful. If we were HS English teachers reading a student's creative writing, he'd get A for effort as he's trying to do exactly what he should be trying to do. But he isn't a student and trying hard isn't worth everyone's $4 a month.

I'm completely fine with Slott's Franklin, he's giving Franklin realistic characteristics even if he is annoying. My main problems with the his FF book is that nothing important really happens or nothing feels like it's going to have any real impact. Slott also likes to create a lot of new characters that'll probably never appear again like the characters from Spyre and what I hate the most is that Slott makes no secret that he's a Thing fan and ultimately doesn't care about the rest of the team, I mean look at all the issues so far that focuses on Ben (first it was his wedding, then it was his Honeymoon, then he somehow had some sort of plot with the monsters of Spyre) and compare that with the rest of the team (Reed only had his storyarc with the Overseer that somehow turned into Ben's story? Johnny had his true love thing with Skye and Sue has had nothing other than to be an ineffective supporting character.)

All this coming from a die hard FF fan, I've read every single issue of Slott's run (I only paged through issue 20 though) even though I lost interest at issue six. I've recently re-read John Byrne's FF run and just by reading the first issue (FF #232) you can tell that Byrne is writing a book for a team of four characters and that he intended to focus and explore on all four characters or at least try and actually he did, I'm not trying to say that I want Byrne to write the FF or anything but I'd really appreciate it if a writer comes along that actually wants to write stories with the entire FF and not just Ben.

[your_name_here]

Who would you propose take over on FF?
What stories would you like to see??

I’d like see something involving The Maker, personally. Although I’ve always wanted Doom to take him on

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I'm completely fine with Slott's Franklin, he's giving Franklin realistic characteristics even if he is annoying. My main problems with the his FF book is that nothing important really happens or nothing feels like it's going to have any real impact. Slott also likes to create a lot of new characters that'll probably never appear again like the characters from Spyre and what I hate the most is that Slott makes no secret that he's a Thing fan and ultimately doesn't care about the rest of the team, I mean look at all the issues so far that focuses on Ben (first it was his wedding, then it was his Honeymoon, then he somehow had some sort of plot with the monsters of Spyre) and compare that with the rest of the team (Reed only had his storyarc with the Overseer that somehow turned into Ben's story? Johnny had his true love thing with Skye and Sue has had nothing other than to be an ineffective supporting character.)

All this coming from a die hard FF fan, I've read every single issue of Slott's run (I only paged through issue 20 though) even though I lost interest at issue six. I've recently re-read John Byrne's FF run and just by reading the first issue (FF #232) you can tell that Byrne is writing a book for a team of four characters and that he intended to focus and explore on all four characters or at least try and actually he did, I'm not trying to say that I want Byrne to write the FF or anything but I'd really appreciate it if a writer comes along that actually wants to write stories with the entire FF and not just Ben.

Well with Byrne, you can tell that Johnny Storm was the character he was most invested in, and that Johnny is the protagonist of his run. To a lesser extent, Susan Storm also. In Byrne's run, Johnny Storm gradually became the character with most development and probably not in the right direction since he had Johnny romance Alicia Masters which few people liked, leading Tom Defalco years later to make her into a Skrull.

Different FF writers have always chosen one of the four as their main focus. Hickman's run was largely the story of Reed and Valeria. Mark Waid's run was also Reed-centric.

So Slott focusing on Ben Grimm and The Thing is not inherently a bad thing or a step too far...it's just, as usual with him, not executed very well.