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  1. #1
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    Default Roronoa Zoro vs. Ares (Marvel comics)

    The swordsman of the Straw Hat pirates takes on the greek god of war from the 616 continuity of Marvel comics.

    Ares will have his axe and sword for this fight.

    Who wins?

  2. #2
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Zoro should...

    Well, Ares does that whole "I can break into planck time for no reason," feat in his arsenal but I'm very iffy on that being something he's ever matched before or shown to repeat.

    In any case, barring that singular instance, Zoro should just handily blitz him into the ground. It might take a while because Ares is a durable chap, but Zoro can just keep cutting him with "small mountain," slicing force until he stays down.
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  3. #3
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Yeah, the Planck-time thing is generally regarded as some high-level SMvFL BS.

  4. #4
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    Sorry, what's "planck time"?
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  5. #5
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Sorry, what's "planck time"?
    Planck time is the closest thing in physics we have to like a smallest measurement of time. It's part of the set of Planck units which in various combinations represent physical limits within our universe.

    Let me just quote Wikipedia real quick:

    A Planck time unit is the time required for light to travel a distance of 1 Planck length in a vacuum, which is a time interval of approximately 5.39 10−44 s.[44] All scientific experiments and human experiences occur over time scales that are many orders of magnitude longer than the Planck time,[45] making any events happening at the Planck scale undetectable with current scientific technology. As of November 2016, the smallest time interval uncertainty in direct measurements was on the order of 850 zeptoseconds (8.50 10−19 seconds).[46]

    While there is currently no known way to measure time intervals on the scale of the Planck time, researchers in 2020 proposed a theoretical apparatus and experiment that, if ever realized, could be capable of being influenced by effects on time as short as 10−33 seconds, thus establishing an upper detectable limit for the quantization of a time that is roughly 20 billion times longer than the Planck time.[47][48]
    Being able to function in Planck time is like way stupid fast. Like, faster than any version of the Flash fast.

    Ares had no business being there haha
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  6. #6

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    It was presented as more of a dimensional travel thing "cuz I'm a god" then a speed thing iirc.

    Either way its bunk imo.
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  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Planck time is the closest thing in physics we have to like a smallest measurement of time. It's part of the set of Planck units which in various combinations represent physical limits within our universe.

    Let me just quote Wikipedia real quick:



    Being able to function in Planck time is like way stupid fast. Like, faster than any version of the Flash fast.

    Ares had no business being there haha
    To be fair, that entire scene made no sense since if you can actually move in Planck time, then you're not in Planck Time as each Planck second is essentially the absolute frames that compose time and I don't think that Nate Gray has any feats that suggest that he is anywhere near that level of super speed, either.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Planck time is the closest thing in physics we have to like a smallest measurement of time. It's part of the set of Planck units which in various combinations represent physical limits within our universe.

    Let me just quote Wikipedia real quick:



    Being able to function in Planck time is like way stupid fast. Like, faster than any version of the Flash fast.

    Ares had no business being there haha
    Wellllllllll, I mean, if we take the time Wally was so fast that Pre Crisis Superman was effect9vely frozen, I imagine he is Planck level speed.

  9. #9
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvel-Studios Rep View Post
    Wellllllllll, I mean, if we take the time Wally was so fast that Pre Crisis Superman was effect9vely frozen, I imagine he is Planck level speed.
    Honestly? No. Not even close.

    Pre Crisis Superman is ungodly amounts faster than light and that one time Wally made him look like a statue was pretty OD but... no.

    Planck time is utterly stupid in terms of what "operating within a period that is measured in Planck time," means in terms of its conceptual speed.

    Like... it's kind of hard to conceptualise because of the sheer orders of magnitude involved but I'll have a crack at illustrating it.

    Like... okay... so a nanosecond is a billionth of a second and is the time it takes light in a vacuum to travel 30 centimetres (1 foot). It would take light roughly 131 million nanoseconds to go around the entire planet. If you're working on scales of nanoseconds, you are extremely fast. If you were to perceive nanoseconds as we perceive normal seconds, you could fairly easily jog 100 metres in the time it takes a beam of light to go less than 10 metres. This is generally the scale that non-Wally West Flashes hang out.

    The next order of magnitude is a picosecond wherein light travels 0.3 millimetres. If picoseconds were as regular seconds, it would take three "seconds" for a beam of light to move a millimetre. It would take a beam of light 83 relative hours to move 100 metres.

    We're getting into the realms of some of PC Superman's more wacky feats at this level based on scaling of his ability to cover insane distances and do complex things while lasers are in some form of motion, similarly with normal everyday speed god Wally West.

    And I want to stress that this is regardless of what some of the dubious statements in comics themselves say, (I'm thinking specifically of that bit where a lady with a gun to her head "buys herself an attosecond," in a recent Superman comic. As we will see when we get there, haha fuck no.) most high end stuff in comics where we have light to scale against falls into the realms of working on a scale of picoseconds.

    A femtosecond, light is now only moving 0.3 micrometres per unit of time, that's 1/3rd of a /millionth/ of a metre. To an observer, a beam of light is effectively a statue because it's moving at such a low amount. If you perceived femtoseconds like you do regular seconds, you need to watch a beam of light for a relative 11 days for it to move a single millimetre. This is about where higher end Pre Crisis stuff tends to sit - Superman doing heart surgery in the arctic while a laser moves through the air on another continent for example.

    I'll note that it becomes very difficult to scale things from here because we are dealing with increasingly small units of time and, honestly, not a lot happens here but we'll continue to use light as a yardstick of sorts.

    An attosecond. This is 1/1000th of a femtosecond. So if attoseconds were as regular seconds to you, someone who perceives light as a statue is effectively frozen to you. Light would travel would now travel one thousand times less far than in the above referenced femtosecond. You would need to watch a beam of light for 31 years to see it move a single millimetre. This would be about where absolute peak Wally West, the singular feat we're talking about, would be sitting. Light is frozen to him, people who perceive light as effectively frozen are themselves functionally completely frozen to him. If Wally is at his best, he's doing stuff in the scale attoseconds.

    So, let's go beyond that shall we?

    A zeptosecond, add another order of magnitude. 1/1000th of an attosecond. Same rationale as before, you would need to watch a beam of light for a relative 31,710 years to see it move an entire millimetre. Wally West is a statue to you now and we still have not hit Planck time.

    Yoctoseconds, apparently the smallest measurement of time we've actually been able to do in real world science. You would now need to watch a beam of light for a relative 32 million years for it to move a single millimetre. The next, and final increment is Planck time.

    We than hit Plank Time, which is still theoretical but is pitched as being... this is actually going to require maths on my part because it's not a clean order of magnitude jump like the others. Planck time is one quintillionth of a single yoctosecond. So... this would mean that you would need to watch a beam of light for a relative... 32 octillion years for it to move a single millimetre. For scale, that length of relative time is dramatically longer than the real world universe has been in existence. The entire universe could begin and get to this moment in time, stop and restart around 2.4 quintillion times over before light had moved a millimetre in Planck time.

    Now, my math might not be perfect on the final number but I hope I have illustrated how bananas scaling the speed of anything in Planck time is. Wally West, even at his tippity toppiest best speed feats ever is nowhere near it.

    Ares has no business even being in the same conversation of what Planck time means.
    Last edited by Nik Hasta; 07-14-2020 at 07:36 AM.
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  10. #10
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Awesome breakdown, Nik. Really nice.

    The only clarifier I’d make is that where you say a zeptosecond is 1000 attoseconds (and so on), it’s the other way around. A zeptosecond, as a smaller unit, is 1/1000 of an attosecond.

  11. #11
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Just to expand on this a little, because I'm on the topic and I love being excessively pedantic - I want to stress the importance of statements versus actually mechanically done things in feats.

    So, let's quickly look at the feat where Flash evacuates a city mid nuclear explosion.

    The key thing I want to highlight here is the contradictory information given by the narration.

    "At 13:57 and 0.00001 microseconds, half a million Koreans seem to materialize on a hilltop 35 miles away from the blast. They were carried here. One at a time, sometimes two, at a hair's breadth short of the speed of light,"

    Now, if you've been paying attention to my breakdown above you'll be thinking that this is some pretty suspect narration. The issue with using this feat is how we interpret it and look at the information we are apparently given.

    Let's start with stated timescale. Flash is stated as having achieved this feat in 0.00001 microseconds. This is 1/100th of a nanosecond or 10 picoseconds. The fact that Flash is covering more than 3.33 millimetres in 10 picoseconds means /he has to be going quite a lot faster than the speed of light/ as the narration would have us believe.

    Second, the distance covered versus his stated speed. Flash is said to have been going "just under the speed of light," Based on my calculations, ignoring the fact that he did some of them in twos, Flash would have covered 35 miles (at most) 532,000 times which is 59,931,821,600 metres (Almost 60 billion metres). Obviously the true number is a bit lower but it's a fairly round number so it makes calculation easier.

    The speed of light is 299,792,458 metres/second which means to run that distance at that speed would take around 200 seconds or 3.3 minutes. So the speed measurement again is categorically wrong even if we ignore the stated timescale because nuclear bombs take less than 3.3 minutes to happen and Flash managed to get everyone out before the bomb went off.

    OR DID HE...?!

    Another issue is the sequencing of the art and how explosions work. The bomb went off "at 13:57," and we can see in the art that the explosion has already occurred even though there is no one on the hill. If the three panels are showing the progression of the explosion, all the people should already be there on the first panel because the light from the explosion has travelled far enough to see from 35 miles away.

    From the instant the bomb went off, in ten picoseconds, the light and radiation of the bomb explosion would have travelled 3.33 millimetres. The pressure wave and the mushroom cloud are relative eons away because they don't move at lightspeed. For people to still be appearing while the mushroom cloud is building, which the art clearly shows, technically Flash actually failed in doing this feat as described.

    This also invalidates the timing listed because we can see things happening in way more time than the stated timescale. It's nuts.

    So, what's my point here?

    Honestly, not much. This feat is very cool but it's definitely one of those ones where, if you look at it for about a minute you go "Wait, what?"

    Were I writing the feat, I would sequence the art differently, have the stated timeframe a little higher maybe have it like... 15 - 20 nanoseconds or something (0.002 microseconds) and just say it was generically "faster than light,"

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    Last edited by Nik Hasta; 07-14-2020 at 05:12 AM.
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  12. #12
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Awesome breakdown, Nik. Really nice.

    The only clarifier I’d make is that where you say a zeptosecond is 1000 attoseconds (and so on), it’s the other way around. A zeptosecond, as a smaller unit, is 1/1000 of an attosecond.
    Ah, thank you, I will correct that. Apologies, remembering which way the log scale goes messes with my brain sometimes.
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  13. #13

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    Someone had an adderall today! :P

    I love everything about what I've just read/learned
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  14. #14
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    So basically X-Man is super cool 5000? I can dig that

  15. #15
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    So basically X-Man is super cool 5000? I can dig that
    Functionally, the ability is as close as to stopping time as you can get without actually stopping it. It's like... a speed/time dilation feat but it's not presented as one in the story. As noted earlier in the thread, it's shown more like a dimensional thing.

    My main objection is with Ares dealing with it haha.
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