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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kubert View Post
    Marvel surely did it's past homework (a la the sun). Excitingat present day studies on the sun is happening too = https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...rbiter-launch/
    Thanks for that article. I love the Sun and learning about it. (After all, it may empower us of the Phoenix!)

  2. #17
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I like the idea that the Phoenix (Phoenix Force) is the spark which ignited the Universe, although Galactus would claim he was the spark. Picture a huge, fiery Bird of Prey soaring thru space. It is near-omnipotent, near-omniscent, although it lacks human/humanoid thoughts and more importantly, feelings and sensations. It is one of the most powerful cosmic entities and when it wishes, can merge with a human/humanoid host, granting that host unimaginable power, almost limitless, although the pure PF itself is still way more powerful. The Phoenix has cosmic telepathy and likes hosts with very high-level psionic abilities. It feels protective of its host(s) and seeks to learn what it does not know (again--feelings, emotions, etc) from the host.

    I hope this helps to explain things.
    LOL yeah we posted at the same time.

    But yes, that is actually very similar (from what was shared) to what they are kinda imagining the Phoenix to be in terms of character development. And that exploration of emotions is what leads to... the practically irreconcilable events to take place, thus the new adventures and narratives of Jean Grey and Phoenix. The Phoenix is meant to be very mysterious, and we mostly learn about it, its power and purpose, through Jean's experience and POV in trying to comprehend what has become of her. We also learn about the Phoenix, through the other X-Man and his becoming of the, also very enigmatic, "Cosmic Rival" and its mysterious mission and desires. Jean Grey has a tough time discerning her own feelings from Phoenix's, which is key to the "Third Act" of the Phoenix Trilogy.

    But... they are trying to lay out a structure of the Phoenix's powers, how those powers work, and what the Phoenix is technically capable of, and what it isn't. All that intricate data would only be for writers, to use as a guideline when developing the Phoenix's story and feats. These power metrics also are created to properly pair the Phoenix with other cosmic entities, especially with the introduction of this new Cosmic Rival.

    Like yeah, we will soon have those discussion forums opening up soon so...

  3. #18
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kubert View Post
    Did your buddies bring in the science of the sun into the conversation? Lots of past legends (outside of comics) pair phoenix birds specifically with the sun. Bring in all the new science we know of the sun, then perhaps maybe possibly; we may someday convey a more "accurate myth."
    Well bion, the main writer, wants to really bring in the mythos of the Phoenix into the whole of the Phoenix Force. However... she has her "weirdness" as in, she complains about the Phoenix Force being more feminine than masculine as, according to her knowledge, the Phoenix of Myth is mostly a masculine entity, thus its association with the Sun. That aside, she's a firm proponent of employing mythos of the Phoenix into the narrative of the actual Phoenix Force.

    Also, these guys (and gals) are BIG on science, and bridging scientific principles with metaphysics (like quantum metaphysics for example). So there's gonna be a lot of that, and it's gonna be interesting as the Phoenix will be explored alongside its new opposing "Cosmic Entity", who has a very interesting power set, and uses another X-Man as its host. Their thing is... solidifying exactly what the Phoenix is, and developing its powers according to its purpose. This way, as other fan writers join in, the Phoenix is established in a way for consistency and being well developed as a character, and its powers.

    Also, also, the main writer wants the Phoenix to be solidified so she can pair it well with its "Cosmic Rival" a new cosmic entity that mysteriously arises, and challenges cosmic authority with its "unnatural" and "alien" powers. The Phoenix needs to be very grounded so it makes developing it, and its revised relationship with Jean Grey, a lot more creative than a lot of the comic repetition we've seen.

  4. #19
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    The phoenix recycles and isn't limitless like that.
    That's why she may need to snack on suns. In her confrontation with Galactus this was said



  5. #20
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    The phoenix recycles and isn't limitless like that.
    That's why she may need to snack on suns. In her confrontation with Galactus this was said


    Yep, this is what my buddies brought out, and basically said what you said, that the Phoenix is a "false" quintessence force; they said that though the Phoenix Force is "limitless" it isn't without its boundaries, which is why it recycles existing energy, thus it's "endless" supply.

    This was an important point for the re-development of this fan collab Phoenix Force, as for what happens in the future, circumstances come about challenging the Phoenix's authority in the cosmos. The Phoenix's Cosmic Rival possesses cosmically "xenogenic" or transcendent powers and energy, thus is defined as a "true" quintessence force. The rise of such adversary forces the Phoenix to approach this new situation in a very different manner. That is, the Phoenix can't rely on its powers alone, and has to rely on its superior cosmic knowledge, experience, and omnipresence, things that the "Cosmic Rival" is without as it's a newly born entity. This they feel will give the Phoenix a new story, with new cosmic adventures and exploration, that breaks away from canon redundancy.

  6. #21
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    There should never have been a "Phoenix Force" to begin with. Phoenix was originally just a combination of an absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely story, and the result of the Hellfire Club messing with Jean's mind. It should have stayed that way.
    I actually love the idea of the Phoenix Force, the problem was how it was overused and misused. The first problem that I do agree with, its retcon needed to free it from being bound to Jean Grey, that way, it would have made space for more creative stories way early on. And if that happened, Jean Grey's character would not have suffered being bound to this being, and others could see how other Mutants could possess the Phoenix, in creative ways.

    That's kinda what the fan collaboration is all about, creating a fresh new take on the Phoenix. Since unfortunately, the Phoenix is bound to Jean Grey's character, a new rival entity has been created, that takes possession of another X-Man, forcing both Phoenix and Jean Grey to break canon redundancy with a new story that challenges their power. Also, the story of the Cosmic Rival gives everyone a chance to see what it would have been like to see innovative and creative ideas, expressed with another Mutant or X-Man, and what kinds of insane cosmic adventures to be had as a "Cosmic Antihero".

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    LOL yeah we posted at the same time.

    But yes, that is actually very similar (from what was shared) to what they are kinda imagining the Phoenix to be in terms of character development. And that exploration of emotions is what leads to... the practically irreconcilable events to take place, thus the new adventures and narratives of Jean Grey and Phoenix. The Phoenix is meant to be very mysterious, and we mostly learn about it, its power and purpose, through Jean's experience and POV in trying to comprehend what has become of her. We also learn about the Phoenix, through the other X-Man and his becoming of the, also very enigmatic, "Cosmic Rival" and its mysterious mission and desires. Jean Grey has a tough time discerning her own feelings from Phoenix's, which is key to the "Third Act" of the Phoenix Trilogy.

    But... they are trying to lay out a structure of the Phoenix's powers, how those powers work, and what the Phoenix is technically capable of, and what it isn't. All that intricate data would only be for writers, to use as a guideline when developing the Phoenix's story and feats. These power metrics also are created to properly pair the Phoenix with other cosmic entities, especially with the introduction of this new Cosmic Rival.

    Like yeah, we will soon have those discussion forums opening up soon so...
    Hi!

    In terms of Phoenix Powers, definitely unlimited Telepathy and Telekinesis, since the Phoenix is the Nexus of all Psionic abilities.

    But I also like fiery energy powers, as we saw Jean wield early on, like when she fought Firelord and then later opened/powered up an interstellar star gate. These displays were not TP/TK, but pure energy displays. The Phoenix Force is a cosmic entitiy of pure energy.

    There may also be some mystical portion---as when Jean as Dark Phoenix fought the X-Men--notably Storm--she blasted Storm with energy. Cyclops through his psychic rapport thinks "black energy--mystical allusions I cannot understand". Dr Strange was also alerted when DP left Earth zooming off into space, stating that he "senses great mystical energy".

    I believe those quotes are exact (going by memory)---- because I remember being so intrigued by them when I first read them!!
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 07-14-2020 at 06:48 AM.

  8. #23
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Hi!

    In terms of Phoenix Powers, definitely unlimited Telepathy and Telekinesis, since the Phoenix is the Nexus of all Psionic abilities.

    But I also like fiery energy powers, as we saw Jean wield early on, like when she fought Firelord and then later opened/powered up an interstellar star gate. These displays were not TP/TK, but pure energy displays. The Phoenix Force is a cosmic entitiy of pure energy.

    There may also be some mystical portion---as when Jean as Dark Phoenix fought the X-Men--notably Storm--she blasted Storm with energy. Cyclops through his psychic rapport thinks "black energy--mystical allusions I cannot understand". Dr Strange was also alerted when DP left Earth zooming off into space, stating that he "senses great mystical energy".

    I believe those quotes are exact (going by memory)---- because I remember being so intrigued by them when I first read them!!
    Yeah, I think they want to display a lot more of Phoenix's powers, like... in the new Phoenix Saga, the writer said she wanted to show Jean upon her first time becoming Phoenix, embrace the Phoenix (after understanding the dire situation, and why the Phoenix chose her). Many of her tk/tp powers, her psionic combat, and other cosmic abilities would be wielded via fiery sparks and displays. Unlike the animated series, the writer/animator wants to focus on how Jean and Phoenix are a perfect power combo, especially against the Shi'ar and Thanos' army, yet show a progression of her learning her powers as Phoenix. They also want to show Phoenix actually traveling into the M'Kraan Crystal (which won't be the only voyage into the world of the stone), and enter the White Hot Room. This is where Jean learns the gist of what the Phoenix is (like, in mysterious, vague detail), and receives emergency instructions from the Phoenix Consciousness, and other Phoenix hosts, of how to repair the Crystal.

    This is why its important to create a grounded foundation, and detailed enough mechanics of what the Phoenix is and how it works, behind the scenes, so each fan writer coming into this series would know and understand what the Phoenix is, and maintain consistency. According to what I've learned (for the fan series), the Phoenix is born of each Big Bang, supplying the Universe with the life force, and monitors how that life energy progresses and develops. Part of monitoring of the life force is its "Judgement" which involves "death and destruction" or "burning away what doesn't work" and recycling that energy into elsewhere in the Universe where it is most needed. This is supposed to lay the foundation of what the Phoenix is capable of, and is heavily based on "manipulation" of all energy, matter, and space-time. All of that is gonna be important in relations to how the Cosmic Rival (and its power set) shakes up not just the Phoenix's authority and modus operandi in Creation, but the rest of the Cosmic Collective, and the whole Omniverse as well.

    The main writer says this is all important to establish, as the rise of the "Cosmic Rival" introduces the insane level of metaphysical principles and powers, to contrast the Phoenix. The Cosmic Rival is an entity of energy described as "xenogenic" (embodying forms of energy "alien" to Creation itself), which is why it burns white and polychromatic plasmoid energy flares, opposed to the Phoenix's red and golden flames. As the Phoenix Force is described as the embodiment of the Life Force and Psionic energy, the Cosmic Rival is described as the embodiment of "Cosmic Evolution". My assumption is that's why it's energy is deemed "unnatural" and "alien" to Creation. We got to see the concept art this past weekend of both Phoenix as Jean Grey, and the "Cosmic Rival" as the other X-Man, and it excited me to envision how these cosmic beings are gonna duke it out LOL

    Its funny you mention Doctor Strange! He plays a very important role as I've learned, in the rivalry between Phoenix and the Cosmic Rival. Doctor Strange, alongside 3 other canon magicians foresaw (I think) how the Phoenix even becomes Dark Phoenix, and in spirit, witnessed the moment Jean Grey merged with Phoenix. There's a new twist given to Dark Phoenix, and I do like this new direction as it is directly tied to Jean Grey's and Phoenix's development of character, which affects the development of the other X-Man and the Cosmic Rival. Jean Grey and this X-Man were already at odds with each other, which further fuels Phoenix's rivalry with the newborn Cosmic Entity.

    One thing I'll spoil, Jean Grey after the Dark Phoenix episode, completely had severed her ties to the now "damaged" Phoenix (its energy was damaged when separating from Jean), hurt and angered over what transpired, despite her fellow teammates telling her its not her fault. What brings them back together, is the birth of the Cosmic Rival, which shook the very fabric of all of Existence, and struck immense fear in the Cosmic Collective. Not even the WHR was immune to this event, which is where the Phoenix Consciousness felt the occurrence. Jean Grey, and many others were psionically stricken by the dark twisting change taking place, and Phoenix urgently returned to her, asking for forgiveness, and that they needed to unite once more and combat this "existential level crisis". Jean refused to reunite, but did at least maintained her new re-connection to the Force. It wasn't until after finding one of the X-Men became the "host" of this frightening Cosmic Rival, and she herself felt it/his incomputable, "alien" energy and tasted its "existentially" devastating potential, that Jean had to make amends with the Phoenix, and they carefully come back together. This gets really insane as the Avengers vs. X-Men, the Fantastic Four, Guardians of the Galaxy and Thanos' Black Order, all get involved with this cosmic plight.

  9. #24
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    Anyone else remember great comic panels like this, that refer to the sun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    ... on suns.



  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kubert View Post
    Anyone else remember great comic panels like this, that refer to the sun?
    whadya mean?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    whadya mean?
    Any reference to Phoenix and the sun (a comic panel, artist/writer interviews, etc.)

  12. #27
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Can't both be true? In its "natural state" whatever that is, the PF is quintessence. But in it's unnatural state, i.e., when it takes a host, or otherwise manipulates a sentient being, it is false quintessence, bounded, and must feed on whatever, whether that is suns or the life spark of the future unborn.
    “True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice.”
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  13. #28
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Can't both be true? In its "natural state" whatever that is, the PF is quintessence. But in it's unnatural state, i.e., when it takes a host, or otherwise manipulates a sentient being, it is false quintessence, bounded, and must feed on whatever, whether that is suns or the life spark of the future unborn.
    Yes, I believe this to (possibly) be the case.

    The PF in human form required a star (sun) for sustenance, thus the whole D'Bari debacle.

    But when bonded to or enhancing a person, this is not usually the case. But on rare occasions may still need the sustenance of a star.

    However, in its true form, the PF does not need to devour the star for energy.

  14. #29
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Can't both be true? In its "natural state" whatever that is, the PF is quintessence. But in it's unnatural state, i.e., when it takes a host, or otherwise manipulates a sentient being, it is false quintessence, bounded, and must feed on whatever, whether that is suns or the life spark of the future unborn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Yes, I believe this to (possibly) be the case.

    The PF in human form required a star (sun) for sustenance, thus the whole D'Bari debacle.

    But when bonded to or enhancing a person, this is not usually the case. But on rare occasions may still need the sustenance of a star.

    However, in its true form, the PF does not need to devour the star for energy.
    Those are all good questions and... today the "writers' guild" will have another group chat around noon. We're supposed to discuss some more suggestions by fans in the current think tank, and... the whole idea of the Phoenix' quintessence is something that I REALLY want answered.

    To me, the Phoenix should be a quintessence force, or... I'd assume it would be a quintessence force. However... I have no knowledge of what quintessence actually is, past a dictionary definition. I also don't know anyone else that has a lot of metaphysical and "spiritual" doctrine and knowledge, other than the people writing this animated Marvel Multiverse. But... as people start defining what quintessence is from metaphysical doctrines and mysticism... then it becomes very gray.

    I'll try to ask as many questions possible, and see what they say, and what... and how they will develop the Phoenix moving forward

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    Those are all good questions and... today the "writers' guild" will have another group chat around noon. We're supposed to discuss some more suggestions by fans in the current think tank, and... the whole idea of the Phoenix' quintessence is something that I REALLY want answered.

    To me, the Phoenix should be a quintessence force, or... I'd assume it would be a quintessence force. However... I have no knowledge of what quintessence actually is, past a dictionary definition. I also don't know anyone else that has a lot of metaphysical and "spiritual" doctrine and knowledge, other than the people writing this animated Marvel Multiverse. But... as people start defining what quintessence is from metaphysical doctrines and mysticism... then it becomes very gray.

    I'll try to ask as many questions possible, and see what they say, and what... and how they will develop the Phoenix moving forward
    As in "Jean Grey", lol!

    Thanks! I will try to answer your questions as best I can.

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