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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Tarkin is the reason the Empire doesn't have clone troopers. The Empire really did shoot themselves in the foot from day one.
    I believe the Empire genuinely wanted low quality, high quantity troops in part because it’s a more totalitarian approach for them. More stagnation below the top brass so that they’re never threatened by up-and-comers, more uniform approaches to all problems, greater emphasis on the state than on its champions, less chance of successful revolt...

    Hell, I think Tarkin was almost as annoyed by how effective the Bad Batch were as he was by their autonomy. He seemed annoyed they won the training exercise without anyone dying, and while sending them against Saw’s people was mostly about testing their loyalty, he also didn’t tell them they were taking on guerrillas, and they would have been in a bad spot if they’d actually opened fire.

    Tarkin feels a bit like he might resemble a more military version of the boss from Rollerball, who is clearly incensed at someone being good at their job below him.
    Last edited by godisawesome; 05-05-2021 at 10:07 AM.
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  2. #77
    You guessed it mr_crisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    So I'm seeing some things about Omega being the last clone and I have to ask..., HOW?

    Even with the Darth Vader books this doesn't make any sense because assuming she's the last of the living DNA source that'd only make her 6 and they started running thin during the war after Jango died. And frankly that means that as they're running out of DNA nobody ever went back to Jango who lives ON SITE to get more.

    Assuming she's the last to be trained makes a bit more sense but they've still got embryos and cadets younger than her so how is she the last clone?

    The million more on the way line is a lot less impressive when you consider that as Obi Wan showed up they ran out of Jango juice.

    Couldn't they use Boba since he's unaltered?
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  3. #78
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    The more I think about it, the more I think Omega has the abilities of all of the Batch. She shoots like Crosshair, learns like Tech. And she knew the team were about to be attacked on the landing platform before the doors opened, which makes me think she has Hunter's senses as well.

    I just don't know if she's copying them somehow, or if she was designed with all of their mutations built in. An omega clone. Might be why the Kaminoans are so keen to protect her. And why she is so fascinated by Clone Force 99. Maybe she knows she was created in their image, so to speak.

    I've seen suggestions that maybe she is Force sensitive. Can't rule it out, but I would rather they didn't. For one thing the Batch may be impressive but I doubt they are a match for an Inquisitor, or worse Vader. For another, the Batch are the team of augmented misfits who don't fit anywhere. Force sensitives fit in somewhere just fine, until you hit that Kylo Ren wall in about 40 years time, anyway. I'd rather she be just as outcast as they are. And it fits the themes of family and brotherhood (now sisterhood, potentially) set up in The Clone Wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_crisp View Post
    Couldn't they use Boba since he's unaltered?
    If you can find him and convince him to, sure. Not sure he'd be real excited about helping grow soldiers for the army commanded by the guys who killed his dad, but maybe everything has a price. Good luck tracking him down, however.

    The real question is why they couldn't just use the dna of ANY clone. I'm assuming there is some in universe explanation involving the changes they made to the code rendering them unable to serve as the template for new clones, but realistically I'm not sure there is any reason you couldn't just copy the copies, particularly considering the clones already contain the altered genetic materials and would require no additional changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Isn't it the other way around? Filoni gave the showrunner permission to use Caleb/Kanan but I don't think he was personally involved with writing it.
    Filoni has a writing credit for the first episode of The Bad Batch.
    Last edited by ZeroBG82; 05-05-2021 at 07:52 PM.

  4. #79
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    I've seen suggestions that maybe she is Force sensitive. Can't rule it out, but I would rather they didn't. For one thing the Batch may be impressive but I doubt they are a match for an Inquisitor, or worse Vader. For another, the Batch are the team of augmented misfits who don't fit anywhere. Force sensitives fit in somewhere just fine, until you hit that Kylo Ren wall in about 40 years time, anyway. I'd rather she be just as outcast as they are. And it fits the themes of family and brotherhood (now sisterhood, potentially) set up in The Clone Wars.
    Gotta fit in that new Vader model from the end of season 7 somewhere.

    The one thing that really made her seem Force Sensitive was when she could see what was wrong with Crosshairs and knew what was about to happen to him, and that it wasn't his fault. Now, maybe she had knowledge about the chips ahead of time to see what they would probably do but she just seemed to somehow know exactly what was going to happen.

    And from a lore perspective it would be pretty major if the Kaminoans were finally able to make a Clone that was Force Sensitive as their life's work.
    Filoni has a writing credit for the first episode of The Bad Batch.
    I guess Filoni is just flipping continuity when it suits him then .

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I believe the Empire genuinely wanted low quality, high quantity troops in part because it’s a more totalitarian approach for them. More stagnation below the top brass so that they’re never threatened by up-and-comers, more uniform approaches to all problems, greater emphasis on the state than on its champions, less chance of successful revolt...

    Hell, I think Tarkin was almost as annoyed by how effective the Bad Batch were as he was by their autonomy. He seemed annoyed they won the training exercise without anyone dying, and while sending them against Saw’s people was mostly about testing their loyalty, he also didn’t tell them they were taking on guerrillas, and they would have been in a bad spot if they’d actually opened fire.

    Tarkin feels a bit like he might resemble a more military version of the boss from Rollerball, who is clearly incensed at someone being good at their job below him.
    That seems to be the frequent explanation for the TIE fighters-that they're mostly quantity over quality, as oppossed to the somewhat more advanced starfighters the clones seemed to have in "Revenge of the Sith" and "Clone Wars". Although the films don't go much into this apart from Obi-Wan noting that the TIE they encounter is a "short range fighter".


    Funny thing is, some of the Rebel's tech in the OT turns out to be descended from said fighters(The X-wings) or stripped-down from them (Y-wings). The A-wing is also descended from the earlier Jedi starfighters.

    Of course the Empire eventually seems to start to notice this and pump out some more advanced fighters like the Defender from Rebels, and although the Interceptors are introduced fairly early on (as opposed to the old EU where it was assumed they were mass-produced versions of Vader's ANH fighter and designed to counter X-wings) it seems they weren't made in huge quantities until around Endor. Of course the ST fighters seem to have a few more tricks like hyperspace, the dual stations on at least some of them, maybe shields?
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  6. #81
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Episode 2 is pretty good. It was cool they brought back Cut from second season (iirc) of Clone Wars. Rex keeping in touch with him is neat. Keeping in contact with Cut is how Rex got to idea of living in a desolate planet with Wolf and the other clone in Rebels.

    I thought that Rex used face paint but it seems that it isn't.

    Omega annoyed me this episode. She acted too much like a tagalong kid for my liking.

  7. #82
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    I had no issue with this episode and like that they're tackling this a bit quicker than The Mandolorian did. We have a decent sized season but hitting this beat now does work and it does allow us to focus on the group more in later episodes. I also like that the rest of the team does get more focus here. No issues from last time, the statement on Cut is one of those things that could be taken a couple different ways so unlike Kannan, this gets a free pass though I wasn't expecting them to do anything to him anyways. It'd detract from the parallel between Hunter and Cut, so while I wasn't expecting him to die it's good to see they didn't and does open the door for stuff with his family down the line.
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  8. #83
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    When did the Bad Batch meet Cut and get on a close basis with his wife and kids? I guess that's a story that may be told at a later date...

    They missed Rex by that much. I guess he's off to try and take the chip out of as many Clones as he can get to.

    On paper, yeah, getting the little girl with an actual, stable, family unit seems like the safer bet but obviously can't happen for plot reasons. Hunter taking to being a new dad like Din did.

    Clones are basically Stormtroopers now. It's kind of sad .

  9. #84
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    .

    Clones are basically Stormtroopers now. It's kind of sad .
    The sight of competent stormtroopers was so jarring to me. They didn't seem to suffer from the poor visibility the helmets provide.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    The sight of competent stormtroopers was so jarring to me. They didn't seem to suffer from the poor visibility the helmets provide.
    Well, they ARE still using the Phase 2 Clone Trooper helmet. Even Rex noted how much poorer the Stormtrooper helmet is during his brief period wearing one during Rebels.

    I do think it's interesting that the Empire opts not to go with clones for the stormtroopers. There are a lot of "good," fascist reasons why a conscript force makes more sense from the point of view of someone like Tarkin. But the obvious trade off in actual skill and capability is so laughable. It really sells the values of the Empire, where lives are completely expendable as long as the state perseveres.

    One shudders to think what kind of damage clones could have done to the early Rebellion. It would have been an absolutely monumental bloodbath. Yet another example of the Empire defeating itself (as we may hope all such regimes eventually will).

  11. #86
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    I don't think that's a case of the Empire shooting itself in the foot as much as Filoni tends to rely on making bad guys incompetent to keep his characters around. There are several times in Rebels where the Ghost crew should be killed and just aren't because suddenly everyone has to take the stupid pills for everyone to escape. Not one fatality beyond Kannan and he only dies because he has to whereas Ahsoka was just thrown back into the void cause creators pet. It's just more a case where Filoni takes hard advantage of working on a kids show and so all the bad guys get poor showings.
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  12. #87
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    When was the last time Stormtroopers seemed like a threat?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    When was the last time Stormtroopers seemed like a threat?
    When was the last time battledroids seemed like a threat? In the shows of course not, they're kids shows and can't kill the heroes be it that they show up in another thing and or the nature of the show itself prevents seeing that.

    Overall you'll find way more success because they aren't bound by being kids shows. The heroes can't die so it's no sense putting them in danger which causes people to play up the incompetence especially when it's for media that will be consumed by children.

    Hell for it even being commented on in The Force Unleashed, the Stormtroopers in that have sheer balls to just run up to Starkiller and beat them with their own weapon when all else fails. Like if they're going to be depicted as bad shots than that game (though they're not in that) picked up the slack by sheer determination to get the job done which can easily overwhelm the player. Sure the bad guys have to loose, but it's just playing up the goofs on film and not understanding an ANH plot point.
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  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Even some of the more elite, intimidating units introduced lately such as the Deathroopers and Darktroopers don't really seem much of a threat when it comes down to it....and Phasma largely turned out to be a disappointment as well.
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  15. #90
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    While a lot of it is the simple genre necessities, I really do think that Filoni is leaning hard into the idea that the Stormtroopers just aren’t up to par with the clonetroopers - and that it’s a deliberate choice on the Empire’s part to serve its totalitarian ends.

    And I love the way it plays into Tarkin being one of the primary examples of “Fascism = Inefficient” in the franchise, prioritizing micro-management, control, and spite over actual competency - exactly the kind of brain that would value the Death Star so much he’d immediately use it in a stupid but evil manner.
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