New Disney+ animated series: The Bad Batch

[green_garnish]

Yes, it was so obvious that even the character's creator hadn't realized it yet. Considering that the choice to make Anakin and Vader the same man didn't get made until Empire was in development. That's pretty damn obvious.

What's clear is that in ANH they left the question vague enough to change direction if they needed to, but making Vader not Luke's father would have constituted a retcon. The whole point of Luke being an orphan with unknown parentage and Owen's statement is clear literary foreshadowing. No other outcome makes any sense.

[ChrisIII]

Some early drafts of ESB (when Leigh brackett was involved) featured Anakin as a separate character. It's sort of the basic skeleton of what the film became; Hoth, Cloud City and Yoda are in early forms etc. but not the film's big sequel hooks, Vader's revelation and Han getting frozen.

[thwhtGuardian]

What's clear is that in ANH they left the question vague enough to change direction if they needed to, but making Vader not Luke's father would have constituted a retcon. The whole point of Luke being an orphan with unknown parentage and Owen's statement is clear literary foreshadowing. No other outcome makes any sense.

It wouldn't make sense now, with what we know. But then? Owen's statement didn't foreshadow anything more complex than hinting that dreaming of going off on adventures is all well and fine but that actually going out and doing so ends up in death and that's the typical warning that just about all heroes are issued in mythology which makes sense that it was an important part of the original film as Lucas was heavily influenced by Campbell.

[green_garnish]

It wouldn't make sense now, with what we know. But then? Owen's statement didn't foreshadow anything

Other than I'm living prooft hat it did, and once it was pointed out to people at the time they understood.

But wait. That doesn't count because I didn't have a cassette recording going at the time.

[thwhtGuardian]

Other than I'm living prooft hat it did, and once it was pointed out to people at the time they understood.

But wait. That doesn't count because I didn't have a cassette recording going at the time.

That is how anecdotal evidence and hearsay are typically treated, yes, and to be clear that really is all you're offering as it can't be corroborated by any objective, outside sources and it goes against what is commonly understood.

[SuperiorIronman]

I just don't understand these type of complaints.
I mean, I understand getting annoyed by inconsistencies in continuity to a certain extent but in a world that literally has the line, " It was true...from a certain point of view" in regards to changing a pretty major plot point from the previous film getting tied up in continuity here just seems silly.

You answered it yourself why I'm annoyed with it especially given on this same forum people gave me **** for not just embracing the new continuity. Well by the time I finally did they started going back in and changing things as if Lucasfilm was ran by Netherealm. The continuity in of itself is around 6 years old. They have no excuse not to do a wookiepedia search if they don't know something and they even set up a story group so mistakes and jumping through hoops to explain things doesn't happen, or at least to the extent of the old EU. Basic ****. That's not a hard thing to understand, the writers can't keep the story straight.

Luke might as well be a woman and fell to the darkside while using a yoyo lightsaber. Why not? If continuity doesn't matter then who gives a ****? From a certain point of view that might as well have happened. You can't account for what they did in the 80's but 2014 going forward was supposed to be different and it can't even do that right.

[Frontier]

I don't have any expectations of a completely perfect multi-media franchise continuity but it does feel like this kind of stuff could be avoided.

[thwhtGuardian]

You answered it yourself why I'm annoyed with it especially given on this same forum people gave me **** for not just embracing the new continuity. Well by the time I finally did they started going back in and changing things as if Lucasfilm was ran by Netherealm. The continuity in of itself is around 6 years old. They have no excuse not to do a wookiepedia search if they don't know something and they even set up a story group so mistakes and jumping through hoops to explain things doesn't happen, or at least to the extent of the old EU. Basic ****. That's not a hard thing to understand, the writers can't keep the story straight.

Luke might as well be a woman and fell to the darkside while using a yoyo lightsaber. Why not? If continuity doesn't matter then who gives a ****? From a certain point of view that might as well have happened. You can't account for what they did in the 80's but 2014 going forward was supposed to be different and it can't even do that right.

If it was something major I could see your point...but it's the Rancor's name. That they changed the creature's name is such an infinitesimally small issue that it's effect on the plot of Return of the Jedi is pretty much zero...or it could just be a completely different Rancor and then it changes absolutely nothing...but either way complaining about just seems really odd to me not only because of the size of the potential plot change but because as I said this is a story where they covered up a past change with a wink and a nod.

[green_garnish]

That is how anecdotal evidence and hearsay are typically treated, yes, and to be clear that really is all you're offering as it can't be corroborated by any objective, outside sources and it goes against what is commonly understood.

That's all very true. Doesn't change that if you understand literary construction, and understand that this was part of a larger story, the foreshadowing is obvious. I'll admit it took me 5 viewings over five weeks, and two readings of the book, before it all clicked for me.

[SuperiorIronman]

So according to reddit the writers actually didn't read up on source material for the show. Either that or Dave Filoni took Sam Witwer correcting him personally. That's apparently why the source group is keeping things vague or having to just go with things because nobody was consulted.

I have a feeling I'm going to look at this show a lot like I do MK11.

[thwhtGuardian]

That's all very true. Doesn't change that if you understand literary construction, and understand that this was part of a larger story, the foreshadowing is obvious. I'll admit it took me 5 viewings over five weeks, and two readings of the book, before it all clicked for me.

Except first hand accounts from the people who made the movie say it wasn't there...

[godisawesome]

This show’s inconsistencies with canon feel more to me like they’d them from LFL going back a bit towards the pre-Disney Buyout philosophy: Films > Cartoons > Comics > Novels > Short Stories > Sourcebooks.

They already had some of that with the last season of TCW versus the Ahsoka book (Ahsoka’s new lightsabers were green in the book, blue on the show). And while it’s not quiet an exact rejection of the previous story, I’d say that the same spirit of “...we can do better or fix this, right?” was present in stuff like “Star Wars: Rise of Kylo Ren” too, even though that’s a comic trying to “fix” a movie detail (and failing in my opinion, because of mostly just repeats the same mistakes as the movie regarding being biased towards Kylo).

From a practical standpoint, telling a director or screenwriter you paid an not-insignificant wage to that they have to abide by the decisions of someone paid less and in a less high profile spot is just not something you’re going to be able to enforce with regularity. Hell, they couldn’t even keep Rian Johnson from ignoring TFA’s story when he wanted to, or Abrams from retconning Johnson’s TLJ story; they’re not going to defend a Greg Weissman tie-in comic from their new show-runner.

[Frontier]

This show’s inconsistencies with canon feel more to me like they’d them from LFL going back a bit towards the pre-Disney Buyout philosophy: Films > Cartoons > Comics > Novels > Short Stories > Sourcebooks.

They already had some of that with the last season of TCW versus the Ahsoka book (Ahsoka’s new lightsabers were green in the book, blue on the show). And while it’s not quiet an exact rejection of the previous story, I’d say that the same spirit of “...we can do better or fix this, right?” was present in stuff like “Star Wars: Rise of Kylo Ren” too, even though that’s a comic trying to “fix” a movie detail (and failing in my opinion, because of mostly just repeats the same mistakes as the movie regarding being biased towards Kylo).

From a practical standpoint, telling a director or screenwriter you paid an not-insignificant wage to that they have to abide by the decisions of someone paid less and in a less high profile spot is just not something you’re going to be able to enforce with regularity. Hell, they couldn’t even keep Rian Johnson from ignoring TFA’s story when he wanted to, or Abrams from retconning Johnson’s TLJ story; they’re not going to defend a Greg Weissman tie-in comic from their new show-runner.

It's not that I don't get it, I just...I guess I just don't see the necessity of it.

Like I didn't dislike seeing an animated depiction of Caleb dealing with Order 66, but it really didn't have to be him and then contradict what was supposed to the canonical depiction of how it happened.

[godisawesome]

It's not that I don't get it, I just...I guess I just don't see the necessity of it.

Like I didn't dislike seeing an animated depiction of Caleb dealing with Order 66, but it really didn't have to be him and then contradict what was supposed to the canonical depiction of how it happened.

The catch to it is that it basically means anytime this kind of thing happens, the new, “higher-ranking” creator is either going to practice fidelity to what came before... or gamble they can do it “better” for some reason. And the more wide ranging or detail-specific they get, the more questionable some of those improvements get.

The cosmetic changes can be the most dubious ones to make - not keeping armor designs or lightsaber colors can feel more like laziness or a weirdly specific bias that doesn’t really work as well.

Other, more significant storytelling differences are more openly debatable - most would argue that Filoni’s modifications to the original Ahsoka story of her confirmation with Maul was actually pretty good, while integrating the Bad Batch into Kanan’s backstory an cloud or obfuscate what was a genuinely strong story of Grey ending up showing some rebellion of his own.

[ChrisIII]

I think there's also been a bit of confusion regarding Rogue One and the Death Star timeline as well.

Some of the Disney stuff dealing with the DS prior to Rogue One does contradict it a bit such as some parts of Tarkin and the novel Lost Stars; although it's more by omission than outright.


However it's nothing like the massive convulted Death Star history of the previous EU, which was already a bit confusing and then AOTC and ROTS threw one heck of a curveball into it. Not to mention that pretty much almost every video game, comic, and novel set around the time of Yavin had a different version of the Death Star plans being stolen. Han Solo's ex stole it, no it was Kyle Katern, no some random Rebel spy station picked it up etc etc....