New Disney+ animated series: The Bad Batch

[ZeroBG82]

Great episodes. Here is my small amount of criticism. They are telling a great story on how the clones were phased out. Im not sure they are really explaining very well exactly why they were phased out.

Except they've done at least two or three episodes that have explicitly shown you why. Most recently with Cade and Slip here in this two parter, but before that with Cody. Because the clones know right from wrong and won't all just follow orders blindly even if that's how they were raised/trained. Too much Jedi influence, most likely. Cade fired on Kamino. On his own home. And that act tore him apart inside until he had to stand up and try to expose the evil he'd witnessed.

Can't be having that if you're trying to run an evil Empire. Stormtroopers can be more carefully molded in the culture the Empire wants to indoctrinate them within. And because they are more individualistic in nature they can be turned against one another much more freely. Which answers the question of "Why not get rid of current clones but then just build an Imperial clone army." The Empire wants a bunch of faceless yes men, who will do what they are told without question and will turn on each other at the drop of a hat if one steps out of line. That's a hard view to foster amongst the ranks of clones, who are by their very nature a kind of family.

[inisideguy]

Except they've done at least two or three episodes that have explicitly shown you why. Most recently with Cade and Slip here in this two parter, but before that with Cody. Because the clones know right from wrong and won't all just follow orders blindly even if that's how they were raised/trained. Too much Jedi influence, most likely. Cade fired on Kamino. On his own home. And that act tore him apart inside until he had to stand up and try to expose the evil he'd witnessed.

Can't be having that if you're trying to run an evil Empire. Stormtroopers can be more carefully molded in the culture the Empire wants to indoctrinate them within. And because they are more individualistic in nature they can be turned against one another much more freely. Which answers the question of "Why not get rid of current clones but then just build an Imperial clone army." The Empire wants a bunch of faceless yes men, who will do what they are told without question and will turn on each other at the drop of a hat if one steps out of line. That's a hard view to foster amongst the ranks of clones, who are by their very nature a kind of family.

I mean I guess. But we have also seen rouge storm troopers in Star Wars stories. So the idea, that stormtroopers are any less moral than clones is a reach.

[inisideguy]

I think that while they haven't come out and said so explicitly, we're seeing why Palpatine wanted them gone via the number of clones that're abandoning the Empire. The mind control isn't permanent or perfect and the clones are too deeply entrenched in the Jedi/Republic philosophies and methods of governing. They're the greatest fighting force in the galaxy and Palpatine wants them gone before they turn on him.

Imagine if Palpatine *had* kept the clone army. As the Empire grew more openly corrupt and the rebellion grew in size, which side are the clones likely to end up on? Sure, Palpatine could have grown new, Empire-friendly clones, but he still has that entire Republic era army to deal with and who knows what kind of influence they may have had on the new batch? I think, given how easy the clones were to twist around to serve Palpatine, he doesn't trust them. If he can use them against the Republic, they can be used against him too, and likely with far less effort than a secret mind control order that had to stay hidden for years.

As for the last few episodes of Bad Batch...I find it funny, and a little worrisome, that the best episodes haven't actually featured the Batch. Show has been good, but it feels like CF99 is kinda just treading water while all the interesting stuff is happening elsewhere. I dunno, it feels like the showrunners don't want the Batch to join the early Rebellion (or whatever Rex is doing), but also can't really find anything else equally compelling for them to do. And the mystery of Omega seems to have fallen completely by the wayside; what was the point of her? Why create her? And I'm getting a little tired of the "maybe she's Force sensitive" teases. If she is, then start using that as part of the active narrative. If not, stop dropping vague hints and teases that she might be.

I'm hoping that this is just the turning point, and soon the Batch is going to be forced to pick a side and do something other than hide. Show is still fun but at this point I'm more curious about where Cody went, and what Crosshair is up to, and what'll happen to all the clones still serving the Empire, than I am the main cast and that's gonna become problematic pretty fast if it isn't rectified.

I dont actually mind that the Bad Batch isnt in everything. If you sort of look at it like just an extension of Clone wars it works for me.

And I said as an answer to the other poster, yes you have some clones go off the reservation so to speak. But we have also seen many empire, and or stormtroopers do the same thing.

[Ascended]

I dont actually mind that the Bad Batch isnt in everything. If you sort of look at it like just an extension of Clone wars it works for me.

Oh I'm fine with the Batch not being in every episode, you're right that it's much akin to the Clone Wars that way and I actually like that we're getting stories and perspectives the Batch wouldn't allow. But I find it a little worrying that the episodes without them have been the best of the season; it's not a great look when the main cast are the weak point of the series. Just like how the best episodes of Boba Fett didn't have Boba Fett in them.

Batch is a better show than Boba, of course, but still.

And I said as an answer to the other poster, yes you have some clones go off the reservation so to speak. But we have also seen many empire, and or stormtroopers do the same thing.

Sure, but just because the stormtrooper program didn't work as well as Palpatine might have wanted it to doesn't mean that he was wrong to want to get rid of the clones.

[ZeroBG82]

I mean I guess. But we have also seen rouge storm troopers in Star Wars stories. So the idea, that stormtroopers are any less moral than clones is a reach.

It's not about moral or not. It's about culture.

Repressive regimes rely on a culture of fear, suspicion/mistrust and conformity in order to maintain the ranks of their police/military forces in spite of the atrocities they are frequently asked to commit. Fear of standing out or being informed on keeps even the notionally moral in line even when they do evil.

Sure, some will balk and turn away. But, by design, they don't have strong enough connections to their comrades to spur large scale defections in most cases.

How do you foster that kind of culture in an army of brothers? When one starts questioning, others see it and start to question as well because they trust and rely on each other by nature. Even if some remain steadfastly loyal to the Empire, the threat of a mass defection remains high.

There is, additionally, cost factor in play as well, though the series hasn't put a lot of emphasis on it. The clone army is intended to be a small, highly trained and well equipped elite force. The GAR is small, given the scale of the galaxy. The clones and their training are expensive and time consuming.

The Imperial Army, as we will see it later, is built to function on overwhelming numbers, much more similar to the droid armies of the Seppies than the GAR. Huge volumes of inexpensively and rapidly trained troopers, easily replaceable if lost.

[inisideguy]

Oh I'm fine with the Batch not being in every episode, you're right that it's much akin to the Clone Wars that way and I actually like that we're getting stories and perspectives the Batch wouldn't allow. But I find it a little worrying that the episodes without them have been the best of the season; it's not a great look when the main cast are the weak point of the series. Just like how the best episodes of Boba Fett didn't have Boba Fett in them.

Batch is a better show than Boba, of course, but still.



Sure, but just because the stormtrooper program didn't work as well as Palpatine might have wanted it to doesn't mean that he was wrong to want to get rid of the clones.

I think the story of how the clones are being replaced is great. Im just not convinced they are explaining exactly why they are doing it that well. However your explanations make sense, its just not articulated in that manner within the show. The clones can just be viewed as a relic of the republic and Palps just doesn't want that connection at all. When you start conscription you run into a whole different set of problems however. You are bringing the casualties right back to the planet's you occupy. Which we saw how this worked out.

The thing that was great about the clones is these guys were fighting and dying and no one cared. But when you start recruiting people yes you then form a sense of we are all in this together. But that's a double edged sword. Its why the French and other countries formed these mercenary groups like the Foreign Legion. These people were looked at as expendable. The public didnt mind as much when they were killed. When you start sending, citizens off to die you end up in a bad spot.

[ChrisIII]

Kind of wondering if they'll bring in Hux's father, who creates the First Order stormtroopers, whose recruitment and training is based on the clone and Jedi model (from a young age) instead of conscription or genetic engineering. Although oddly enough, Phasma, his sucessor, is Recruited in her early 30s

[babyblob]

I just finished episode 9. I am really enjoying this series and have to say Cad Bane is a beast!

[Ascended]

I think the story of how the clones are being replaced is great. Im just not convinced they are explaining exactly why they are doing it that well. However your explanations make sense, its just not articulated in that manner within the show.

Can't argue with that. But the story is still unfolding, and has mostly been from the perspective of the clones and they don't know exactly why they're being phased out either. As things go along and people learn what's happening, perhaps we'll get more concrete answers to *why* it's happening too.

When you start conscription you run into a whole different set of problems however. You are bringing the casualties right back to the planet's you occupy. Which we saw how this worked out.

Very true, and this is exactly what ended up happening. Tyrants often provide the means of their own downfall and Palpatine was no different. He likely thought that overwhelming power and numbers and cruelty would be enough to keep planets in line, no matter how many conscripts died. And for a while he was right. Many real world monsters have thought the same, and they always end up right where the Emperor did; killed by their own people, betrayed by those closest to them, etc.

[inisideguy]

Can't argue with that. But the story is still unfolding, and has mostly been from the perspective of the clones and they don't know exactly why they're being phased out either. As things go along and people learn what's happening, perhaps we'll get more concrete answers to *why* it's happening too.



Very true, and this is exactly what ended up happening. Tyrants often provide the means of their own downfall and Palpatine was no different. He likely thought that overwhelming power and numbers and cruelty would be enough to keep planets in line, no matter how many conscripts died. And for a while he was right. Many real world monsters have thought the same, and they always end up right where the Emperor did; killed by their own people, betrayed by those closest to them, etc.

Thumbs up!

[Frontier]

These were a great set of episodes, yet more and more I get the feeling that the best episodes of the show tend to either not focus on the Bad Batch or make them incidental to the story.

Is it just me or is the facial hair we see on some Clones meant to highlight their rapid aging and not a design choice?

"Insurgents" always the ideal way of trying to avoid saying "Rebels."

I never thought before about how difficult it would be to de-militarize Clones but like they said in the episode, they were born, bred, and designed only for combat, what's left for them if they can't do that? Of course it also doesn't help that the Empire doesn't care about them at all.

Chuchi! Mark her down for another significant Clone Wars character we finally get an update for. Still fighting the good fight. Though until I see her with a Rebel cell I'm going to constantly be worried about what happened to her.

These episodes reminded me a lot of those Padme-focused episodes in Clone Wars that dealt with all the political intrigue regarding the war. In fact Chuchi's outfit felt like one of Padme's many outfits in Clone Wars.

Seeing Bail is always nice.

So my takeaway is the Empire is making ready-made, 100% loyal, and non-distinct Clones to do their wetwork for them?

Mas Amedda getting dialogue!

Gotta admit, was not expecting Rampart to get exposed and get arrested by the same Clones he was trying to do away with. I thought he'd be the Final Boss of the show, but instead he gets turned into an example good ol' Palpatine can use to push forward with his bill...just without his involvement. How very Sith.

Sidious being the one to introduce Stormtroopers felt so right.

It's funny that this season tried to be doing more with Echo after barely focusing on him in season 1...only to then write him off. I mean, I think he's better off with Rex and maybe a smaller cast will benefit the show, but said cast is getting smaller. His farewell with Echo was quite touching though.

[ZeroBG82]

It's funny that this season tried to be doing more with Echo after barely focusing on him in season 1...only to then write him off. I mean, I think he's better off with Rex and maybe a smaller cast will benefit the show, but said cast is getting smaller. His farewell with Echo was quite touching though.

Yeah, the same way they wrote off Crosshair when he stayed with the Empire and who we've definitely never seen since. Wait...

This isn't them writing Echo off. This is them giving a ready made excuse to do episodes that show us what Rex (and now Echo) are up to without them having to shoe-horn in crossing paths with the Batch.

[Frontier]

Yeah, the same way they wrote off Crosshair when he stayed with the Empire and who we've definitely never seen since. Wait...

This isn't them writing Echo off. This is them giving a ready made excuse to do episodes that show us what Rex (and now Echo) are up to without them having to shoe-horn in crossing paths with the Batch.

I mean, Crosshairs is still a major character but his appearances have been pretty lax this season compared to season 1.

We probably will see Rex and Echo again but I have no idea if the plan is more (ugh) Cid missions for the rest of the season or if we'll get back to the plot sooner. And it just stands out more to me because the writers didn't seem to know what to do with him on the team most of the time.

[Frontier]

So the moment Echo leaves things immediately take a turn for the worse. I mean, obviously the team is a man down but it feels like part of it is that they need a mediating personality to balance the team out because of how much Tech and Wrecker snipe at each other otherwise.

They didn't really show a lot of Omega and Echo moments until literally this season but I understand how she's not used to change or her family dynamic shifting so suddenly. Especially knowing her upbringing.

Lion King moment!

Finally some Tech character development! His blunt and logical personality finally bites him in the butt, but it all pays off when we see he really does care and does have feelings, he just process them differently than the rest do, yet it's there all the same (neurodivergent anyone?). It was nice to see him and Omega get to have a moment and emphasize how they're a family.

First Cid is fine with abandoning them for a mission she sent them on (that, of course, turned out to pretty much be a bust) and then tells them they have to wait a few days before she can save them. Can we please ditch this woman? When is it it finally going to be the last straw? When she actually betrays them? Although maybe she'll get the Marauder back.

[Deathstroke]

I liked this week's episode a lot. The side adventure stories have been okay this year, but some are definitely better than others. This was one of the really good ones.