Wonder Woman OP??

[NaVi]

Fine, that is your opinion. I think WW should be as strong as SM. And that's the idea that her creator had in mind since day one.

The creator of Wonder Woman created her to be equal to Superman, but there is a small problem, Superman was created to be the strongest, he was created first, DC is his universe (being the first, everything started), therefore he has priority .ww fans, you're complaining that dc doesn't create stories in full swing, but how is he going to do it? If for you he is stronger than the entire league, smarter than the entire league, his weapons defeat universal / multiverse beings (strange ghost) he has no weaknesses. With such a being, the only story of her height is the antimonitor, that the jl stares, she defeats the antimonitor alone, although that is possibly a low feat for her.

[WonderLight789]

The creator of Wonder Woman created her to be equal to Superman, but there is a small problem, Superman was created to be the strongest, he was created first, DC is his universe (being the first, everything started), therefore he has priority .ww fans, you're complaining that dc doesn't create stories in full swing, but how is he going to do it? If for you he is stronger than the entire league, smarter than the entire league, his weapons defeat universal / multiverse beings (strange ghost) he has no weaknesses. With such a being, the only story of her height is the antimonitor, that the jl stares, she defeats the antimonitor alone, although that is possibly a low feat for her.

You are exaggerating a lot. She is far from being portrayed as this omnipotent being you are talking about. I remember far more stories with sm being portrayed as the greatest everything and making the whole jl redundant, than visa versa. Did you make threads about sm being too op in those stories? Looks like you are not against that idea, as long it's not WW. Sigh

[Gaelforce]

The creator of Wonder Woman created her to be equal to Superman, but there is a small problem, Superman was created to be the strongest, he was created first, DC is his universe (being the first, everything started), therefore he has priority .ww fans, you're complaining that dc doesn't create stories in full swing, but how is he going to do it? If for you he is stronger than the entire league, smarter than the entire league, his weapons defeat universal / multiverse beings (strange ghost) he has no weaknesses. With such a being, the only story of her height is the antimonitor, that the jl stares, she defeats the antimonitor alone, although that is possibly a low feat for her.

With all due respect, being first does not mean a character has dibs on anything. The characters weren't in a shared universe, and so to create a character on Superman's level but a woman doesn't mean she can't be as good as or better than something he can do (see Shazam)

By this logic, since Diana was created to be the strongest/greatest female hero in the DCU, then Power Girl, Supergirl, etc., would automatically be 'lesser' in terms of power levels.

[Gaius]

NO!!!

Who says that its UNBREAKABLE? WHO says that its able to make anybody tell the TRUTH???

It ISNT!!!!

So I know this is just gonna result in people posting instances of the Lasso getting broken or not working properly but yeah, being unbreakable has been something established for decades. That's basic Wonder Woman 101 like "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" is for Superman.

Its SIMPLE: Cassie was Zeus daughter in Pre-Flashpoint, then in NEW52 it was changed to Diana becoming Zeus daughter, which also added NOTHING!!!!! to Diana and instead only "harmed" Cassie.

Jason being "stronger" more "powerful" and making Diana "taking a backseat" is much much less important for me than Diana becoming Zeus daughter and Cassie Zeus granddaughter.

If you say that Jasons role "harmed" Diana, I say that the change of Zeus becoming Dianas father and Cassie only granddaughter "harmed" Cassie.

I don't really care for either Diana or Cassie having Zeus parentage but of all the problems of the New 52 Titans Cassie not being descended from one particular god is probably near the bottom of the list.

[Masterff]

Powergirl is in fact not stronger than Wonder Woman, present me with feats or you're wrong.

That's not how it works. EVERYSINGLE religion in DC is real. Greek, Norse, Shinto, Hindu, New, Old, etc... its all real. The Presence is the most powerful being in DC he created it all (no wait they changed that again, Perpentula created everything). Getting butt hurt isn't helping you. pre- Nu52 DC Ares isn't a push over, on feats alone he can go toe to toe with Darkseid; same with DC Zeus.

The LASSO OF TRUTH, can't force people to tell the TRUTH?! you hear yourself? EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. the lasso is used we are reminded of its indestructability. Made by Hephaestus? Blessed to hold the Flames of Truth by Hestia? Its indestructible, infinitely elastic, and infinitely long. It holds magic god fire and can channel Zeus's lightning through it.

Superman beat Darkseid in Grant Morrison's Multiversity by singing, Batman SHOT Darkseid with a literal magic bullet. Superman is the pin that holds the DC Multiverse together, Batman has an entire "DARK" multiverse dedicated to him. Wonder Woman lifting a rock and showing an aptitude for leadership, that she has been trained to have since birth cause she is a PRINCESS, is suddenly a step too far and an entire thread about her being "OP" is made.

The EARTH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a rock covering a cave.
Hey remember the time Superman and Wonder Woman lifted ETERNITY? I do. Remember when Wonder Woman broke Kronos's scepter, the one that held the powers of creation and destruction on a universal scale? I do. Remember when Wonder Woman blocked millions of tiny god shards from the shattered god that moved across galaxies in seconds and all converged at one point at the same time? I do.

The "fight" between Diana and Stranger was all of three panels. Diana hit Stranger twice, which didn't even harm Stranger and she was chastised for. She then tied him in the lasso and blasted him with Zeus's lightning; lightning that can kill elder Gods, harm multiverse level beings (see the shattered god), harm sky fathers (like Pele), and was 1/3 of the power responsible for splitting the Source.

Diana has powerful equipment and extra powers like Zeus's lightning and Hecate's magic. The lasso has always been powerful, actually its been downgraded since its creation. She, herself is not OP.

Simply NO!!!!

1. Yes there are religions over the world-BUT NO...There is ONLY ONE REAL GOD and this is the PRESENCE...

2. NORMAL PEOPLE-YES...
Phantom Stranger,Spectre,Day of Vengeance,Michael,Lucifer.....ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN even "Gods" like Darkseid,Zeus etc.

3. In DAY OF VENGEANCE (2005)
There was SPECTRE (who was amped by magical energies of the Multiverse) vs PHANTOM STRANGER
And not even amped Spectre could kill Phantom Stranger...

Phantom Stranger was just transformed into a mouse, because Spectre COULDNT KILL HIM (wasnt allowed to do that)
Spectre KILLED DARKSEID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But Darkseid was resurrected because Presence wish that Darkseid exist...

Greek Gods mean nothing...
Phantom Stranger, Lucifer,Michael,Presence,Spectre are way above them....
SPECTRE once simply KILLED DARKSEID, but Darkseid was immediatly resurrected because (like Darkseid himself says) a greater force than Spectre decided that Darkseid is necessary!!!!!!!

Spectre>>>>Phantom Stranger>>>>>>>>Trigon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Darkseid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zeus

Ranking of the most powerful beings in DC UNIVERSE is:

1. PRESENCE
2. ELAINE
3. MICHAEL+LUCIFER
4. SPECTRE
5. difficult, but I would say Phantom Stranger

I think it was in DAY OF VENGEANCE when SPECTRE and PHANTOM STRANGER fought vs each other until the Presence (in the form of a dog) interrupted them...

Please. How many times Superman and batman have been shown to be able to handle it all on their own, making the whole jl useless? Many, many times actually. And i didn't see you making threads about it.

Wonder Woman is stronger than pg. Feats are in WW's favor.

The lasso is indeed unbreakable, and it has the power to reveal the truth. These 2 things are constantly being talked about in the comics when the lasso is involved.

Based on feats. Pre 52 Ares has all the feats needed to go toe to toe with Darkseid. same with Zeus. And rebirth darkseid only won because he was absorbing zeus's energy without him knowing. Darkseid has also been confronted by Superman in one on one fights many times, and Superman has even been able to win more than once. WW has also been able to fight darkseid one on one. Conclusion, darkseid isn't always portrayed as this mighty god way above any jl member level. On the contrary, darkseid has more jobbing moments than some people think.

1. Darkseid uses mostly AVATARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you read DC you should know that...I am not even sure that there are many fights where he himself fights.
So fights means nothing, because he mostly uses Avatars instead of his real self..

2. Lasso is said to be unbreakable and has the power to reveal the truth, thats right
BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a) Presence can limit it EASILY....
Spectre once killed Darkseid and Presence resurrected Darkseid afterwards
Spectre couldnt kill Phantom Stranger and had to turn him into a mouse (DAY OF VENGEANCE)!!!

b) Lasso is made by "Greek Gods"
So it makes NO SENSE that its able to be unbreakable and reveal the truth also if it gets used against more powerful beings like Spectre,Phantom Stranger,Michael, Lucifer............

c) The existance of PHANTOM STRANGER is wished by the Presence
Spectre once killed Darkseid, but Presence resurrected him immediatly, because its PRESENCE wish that Darkseid exists...
Darkseid also said that a greater force than Spectre wants him to exist
In Day of Vengeance Spectre wanted to kill Phantom Stranger, but its forbidden so he had to turn him into a mouse...

So I know this is just gonna result in people posting instances of the Lasso getting broken or not working properly but yeah, being unbreakable has been something established for decades. That's basic Wonder Woman 101 like "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" is for Superman.


I don't really care for either Diana or Cassie having Zeus parentage but of all the problems of the New 52 Titans Cassie not being descended from one particular god is probably near the bottom of the list.

It doesnt matter what its said about the Lasso...

Lasso was NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! used before on a being like Phantom Stranger...

If you ever read DAY OF VENGEANCE than you know that Phantom Stranger was able to fight against Spectre and Spectre couldnt kill him, but had to transform him into a mouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spectre for example KILLED Darkseid without much trouble, but Darkseid was resurrected afterwards because Presence wish that he exists!!!

As long as it concerns normal people or even Superheroes like Superman yes, Darkseid yes...
BUT!! Spectre,Phantom Stranger,Michael+Lucifer,Elaine,Day of Vengeance......are out of the class of the lasso.

Read DAY OF VENGEANCE, in DAY OF VENGEANCE Spectre wanted to kill Phantom Stranger, but he wasnt able (allowed to do that).

Phantom Stranger is considered to be more or less equal to Spectre (offensive and defensive)

[Masterff]

Okay, so Presence is the most powerful and can wish his subjects to be almost as powerful as he is, but as such he can also limit their powers.

The question here is whether Spectre and Phantom Stranger are really that powerful, or Presence decided that they shouldn't be that powerful or that they should have certain weaknesses.

You said Spectre killed Darkseid so it sounds like he is that powerful, and Darkseid is stronger than Greek Gods from what I've seen since they're affected by how many people worship them, but how about Phantom Stranger? Is he as strong as the Spectre or is he far weaker?

Follow up question would be, as shown in the comics, have they been able to reject the Lasso of Truth before in canon, or is this their first confrontation with the Lasso?

If I understand correctly, your argument was because the Lasso was created by Greek Gods, who are far weaker, then they shouldn't be able to affect the Presence's subjects like Phantom Stranger? It is logical. So for me, it's back to the weakness question above. Maybe they're created with a weakness against the lasso?

Also, keep in mind, the current Phantom Stranger who was lassoed by Diana is Judas Iscariot, who's created way later than the Greek Gods and the Amazons, even though he's older than Diana and the Lasso. I don't know when the original Phantom Stranger was created or for what purpose, but the current one is basically a prisoner in debt so for me it makes sense that he's not as strong as classic Phantom Stranger.

https://www.cbr.com/dc-comics-trivia-phantom-stranger/
In 2005 story DAY OF VENGEANCE an AMPED by Magical Energies of the Multiverse!!!!!! Spectre COULDNT Kill the Phantom Stranger, but instead turned him into a mouse!!!

Its difficult to rank characters, because I dont know how powerful "Day of Vengeance (The Decreator)", "The Endless" are...

For Gods:

Trigon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Darkseid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >Zeus

Like I said NOT EVEN AMPED PHANTOM STRANGER (DAY OF VENGEANCE) could kill Phantom Stranger, because "its simply not allowed".

It should be for 2 reasons impossible for Wonder Woman:
1. Phantom Stranger should be way more powerful than Greek Gods etc. and therefore be simply able to turn it into normal ropes or so...
2. Phantom Stranger was created by Presence and also in Day of Vengeance we clearly see that he doesnt want him to be killed....We also saw that Spectre wasnt allowed to kill Darkseid

The denial is strong with this one.

Superman has always been written as the most-insertwhateveryouwant of them all.
Always stronger than said character whose primary feature is that particular power.

Superman is the one that has always been portrayed as OP.

The fanboy attitude clouds some people’s judgement here.

For once in a lifetime, WW is shown the way it should be and it hurts the Superman toxic fanboy base (not all of them, a portion of the fan base okay? ».

There are countless of times where Supes in shown doing things only HE could do and people find it normal.

Let our Wonder Woman shine for once. It won’t last because some writer will always come back undoing some of Diana’s feats by making Superman the best in everything again.

Be patient.

RIDICULOUS..

It has NOTHING to do with Superman Fanboys etc.

The "feat" with Phantom Stranger makes NO SENSE....

In DAY OF VENGEANCE even an AMPED SPECTRE couldnt kill PHANTOM STRANGER!!!!

1) What the Presence is doesn't matter. We are talking about the Phantom Stranger. His power comes from the Presence, but I don't see any evidence it is unlimited. Again, The Phantom Stranger is not The Presence.

2) The Presence can indeed do what it wants. The Phantom Stranger, again, is not the Presence and probably does have limits to his ability. So Wonder Woman used the lasso on Phantom Stranger, and clearly, the Presence did not take direct action to stop it. So what we are talking about its the Phantom Stranger's power. Not The Presence, not Lucifer, not Michael, not Elaine and not the Spectre. The top players, as you put it, don't matter here.

3) Again, Galactus is extremely powerful in the Marvel universe. The Silver Surfer was empowered by him, but was not powerful enough to fight Thanos, who likewise could barely scratch Galactus. Just because The Presence empowers someone doesn't make them equal. Michael and Lucifer are more powerful than The Spectre who is more powerful than Phantom Stranger who is more powerful than Zauriel. Again, we see that pretty clearly when Phantom Stranger wasn't able to stop The Spectre's rampage in Days of Vengeance, so why didn't the Presence power him up then?

The way I see it, you can look at it two different ways. Either Phantom Stranger does have limits to his powers, or he is a literal deus ex machina who succeeds or fails at the Presence's whim. Since you seem to ascribe the the latter, than his failures must have been allowed to happen by the Presence. So, he wasn't allowed to beat the Spectre in Days of Vengeance, and likewise, the Presence allowed Wonder Woman to use the lasso on him in recent comics. Which seems nonsensical, but maybe it is all part of The Presence's plan or whatever.

1.
It doesnt matter
Phantom Stranger is a creation of PRESENCE and if you read Day of Vengeance than you see that not even AMPED SPECTRE COULDNT KILL PHANTOM STRANGER.
Spectre had to transform Phantom Stranger in a mouse!!!!!!!!!!!

2.
The Lasso is made by Greek Gods etc.
Greek Gods and not even Darkseid etc. should be able to create something which cant even touch beings empowered by the Presence

3.
In Day of Vengeance like I mentioned
https://www.cbr.com/dc-comics-trivia-phantom-stranger/
Spectre had to transform PHANTOM STRANGER into a mouse
Spectre killed Darkseid, but DARKSEID was resurrected afterwards

This 2 ocasions CLEARLY showed that its PRESENCE wish that DARKSEID and PHANTOM STRANGER should exist.

In Day of Vengeance PHANTOM STRANGER was also able to compete with Spectre and Spectre turned him into a mouse.

If not even an AMPED SPECTRE cant kill Phantom Stranger than NOBODY should have a chance to do that...

[Masterff]

Even if Wonder Woman Fans dont want to hear it:

If you simply accept the Phantom Stranger Situation then you also to accept a situation in which Robin splits Zeus in half with a kick and kills Darkseid.

If Diana can do something which even an out of Control (DAY OF VENGEANCE) Spectre COULDNT do, you MUST accept everything.


We are talking about PHANTOM STRANGER, a guy who is so powerful that he can rival the SPECTRE and writers had to impose limits on him:
He can only GUIDE others to take necessary actions!!! and not to end a Crisis on his own!!!!!

He is so powerful that he had to be restricted, because he could simply easily defeat Darkseid/Greek Gods etc. etc.




And NO!!!! not even Superman or Batman did something comparable!!!

[Restingvoice]

I wanna ask if the current Phantom Stranger is as strong as the old one but that doesn't matter, because what's happening here is the usual problem of DC author only knowing the lore about as much as they have read

There is no required wiki for authors to read. Writers are to learn the lore themselves, buying books themselves and learn from that, and depending on when they started, they may only have a month. When Priests was asked to make Teen Titans crossover with Titans and Deathstroke, he only had time to read the month's issue with Damian. Of course, there's also writers like Finch who refused to read lore because she wanted to make her own, and there's no requirement from DC that she had to read it.

So this writer wouldn't know about events happened long ago, or the power levels of each supernaturals. They may assume that Presence, New Gods and Greek Gods are all Gods and therefore have the same level of power.

Anyway, this is a thing that's going to keep happening.

[WonderLight789]

Simply NO!!!!

1. Yes there are religions over the world-BUT NO...There is ONLY ONE REAL GOD and this is the PRESENCE...

2. NORMAL PEOPLE-YES...
Phantom Stranger,Spectre,Day of Vengeance,Michael,Lucifer.....ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN even "Gods" like Darkseid,Zeus etc.

3. In DAY OF VENGEANCE (2005)
There was SPECTRE (who was amped by magical energies of the Multiverse) vs PHANTOM STRANGER
And not even amped Spectre could kill Phantom Stranger...

Phantom Stranger was just transformed into a mouse, because Spectre COULDNT KILL HIM (wasnt allowed to do that)
Spectre KILLED DARKSEID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But Darkseid was resurrected because Presence wish that Darkseid exist...

Greek Gods mean nothing...
Phantom Stranger, Lucifer,Michael,Presence,Spectre are way above them....
SPECTRE once simply KILLED DARKSEID, but Darkseid was immediatly resurrected because (like Darkseid himself says) a greater force than Spectre decided that Darkseid is necessary!!!!!!!

Spectre>>>>Phantom Stranger>>>>>>>>Trigon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Darkseid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zeus

Ranking of the most powerful beings in DC UNIVERSE is:

1. PRESENCE
2. ELAINE
3. MICHAEL+LUCIFER
4. SPECTRE
5. difficult, but I would say Phantom Stranger

I think it was in DAY OF VENGEANCE when SPECTRE and PHANTOM STRANGER fought vs each other until the Presence (in the form of a dog) interrupted them...



1. Darkseid uses mostly AVATARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you read DC you should know that...I am not even sure that there are many fights where he himself fights.
So fights means nothing, because he mostly uses Avatars instead of his real self..

2. Lasso is said to be unbreakable and has the power to reveal the truth, thats right
BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a) Presence can limit it EASILY....
Spectre once killed Darkseid and Presence resurrected Darkseid afterwards
Spectre couldnt kill Phantom Stranger and had to turn him into a mouse (DAY OF VENGEANCE)!!!

b) Lasso is made by "Greek Gods"
So it makes NO SENSE that its able to be unbreakable and reveal the truth also if it gets used against more powerful beings like Spectre,Phantom Stranger,Michael, Lucifer............

c) The existance of PHANTOM STRANGER is wished by the Presence
Spectre once killed Darkseid, but Presence resurrected him immediatly, because its PRESENCE wish that Darkseid exists...
Darkseid also said that a greater force than Spectre wants him to exist
In Day of Vengeance Spectre wanted to kill Phantom Stranger, but its forbidden so he had to turn him into a mouse...



It doesnt matter what its said about the Lasso...

Lasso was NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! used before on a being like Phantom Stranger...

If you ever read DAY OF VENGEANCE than you know that Phantom Stranger was able to fight against Spectre and Spectre couldnt kill him, but had to transform him into a mouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spectre for example KILLED Darkseid without much trouble, but Darkseid was resurrected afterwards because Presence wish that he exists!!!

As long as it concerns normal people or even Superheroes like Superman yes, Darkseid yes...
BUT!! Spectre,Phantom Stranger,Michael+Lucifer,Elaine,Day of Vengeance......are out of the class of the lasso.

Read DAY OF VENGEANCE, in DAY OF VENGEANCE Spectre wanted to kill Phantom Stranger, but he wasnt able (allowed to do that).

Phantom Stranger is considered to be more or less equal to Spectre (offensive and defensive)

As Masterwitcher88 said. In current DC Perpentula created everything. So presence is not number one. The lasso is said to be literally unbreakable. So no, there is no reason to believe that stranger could break it.

Batman and Superman have done more "ridiculous" things anyway. did you create it threads about that? All the times that they were shown as the best all around and made all the jl look redundant, did you make threads about it?

[NaVi]

Superman was the fastest, flash came and Superman is a snail at his side, fans accept it. superman was a genius, but dc decided that batman is the only genius (he appears every 2 comics, to explain something to superman), fans accept it. Superman was the strongest, but now half a league is at his level, fans accept it. but it seems that that is not enough, now it has to be 1 or 2 levels below, and as the fans complain, the bad guys are us. I wonder how the fans of Batman would feel, if Batman lost his intelligence, his ability, being one step ahead, everything to make Green Arrow look better. WW fans, if she stopped being a warrior, lost her weapons, including the lasso, depended only on her powers, and DC began to give her one weakness after another.

[Perseus]

I'm seriously considering making a respect thread for DC Ares and Zeus since a good number of people like to trash on them. I'd probably make one for Diana too, but that would take forever.

[Perseus]

Superman was the fastest, flash came and Superman is a snail at his side, fans accept it. superman was a genius, but dc decided that batman is the only genius (he appears every 2 comics, to explain something to superman), fans accept it. Superman was the strongest, but now half a league is at his level, fans accept it. but it seems that that is not enough, now it has to be 1 or 2 levels below, and as the fans complain, the bad guys are us. I wonder how the fans of Batman would feel, if Batman lost his intelligence, his ability, being one step ahead, everything to make Green Arrow look better. WW fans, if she stopped being a warrior, lost her weapons, including the lasso, depended only on her powers, and DC began to give her one weakness after another.

How would Superman fans feel if they took his origin, his culture, his beliefs, his side characters, his entire history, AND his powers; chewed them up, spat them back out, and told fans to except it? That's exactly what happened in the Nu52 with Wonder Woman. Clay origin? gone. Loving sisters? gone. Amazon technology? gone. Amazon history? gone. Goddesses? gone. Compassion and wisdom? gone. Since 2011 we got an angry Zena warrior woman clone masquerading as wonder woman, swinging a sword and shouting about loving to fight. Now... FINALLY... WW fans are seeing her get back to her established roots; amazons that are loving and supportive, Diana reconnecting with Donna (hopefully Cassie too), amazons having advanced technology, Diana's own villains getting rebooted, and so on... And YES, part of this resurgence is knowing just how powerful Diana is.

The thing that you don't seem to understand is that despite all of this, Superman is still way better off than her. 2 solo titles. Respected editing mandates. established history and supporting cast that barely gets changed. The guy that gets to show off the other 90% of the time when its not Batman.

All this WW stuff is happening in one book... and don't worry it rarely gets featured in JL or JLD or YJ. The amazons in the previous run in JL returned to their bronze age man hating NU52 ways, albeit for a brief moment.

So Diana gets to finally do SOMETHING in a JL book and you throw a hissy fit because?

Do you want me to sit here and just show/tell you EVERYTHING that Diana has done since rebirth in JL and compare that to what Superman has done? would you like to see that comparison? What should I bring up first? Diana getting trapped in some dimension in the very first JL rebirth issue and not doing anything for the entire story. How about the time she was just standing there as a background character holding a sword/shield because the writer couldn't be bothered to give her something to do, I got a lot of those. How about the time she nearly died to a ricochet bullet or accidently caused a nun to be killed, that was in the same story ark. Or that Aquaman/Wonder Woman JL story were Diana was barely in it.

[Ascended]

The creator of Wonder Woman created her to be equal to Superman, but there is a small problem

I've talked about this on the Controversial Opinions thread, but this is why I have a problem with Diana's strength; this entire facet of her character, arguably the most important power she has, is determined by a man who isn't even part of her mythos. Diana's strength is increased when *Clark* gets stronger in any given continuity, decreased when *Clark* gets weaker. She doesn't have any agency here, she just reacts to what Clark does.

There's always going to be comparisons, just like there's comparisons between Clark's speed and Barry's. But Flash's speed is not dictated by how fast Superman is. Diana's strength, quite often, is.

Superman is the strongest person around. That's his role, his purpose, and he's a more popular IP so he's always gonna be stronger. And there's nothing wrong with Diana being #2. Nothing wrong with that at all, but the fact that she's so solidly placed in that position, I think, ends up hampering her more than anything because it stops being about what *she* can do, and becomes "Well, what can Superman do, and then we'll reduce that by half a ton, and that's what Diana can do." It's not that Diana is "the strongest woman on earth" or anything, which would be great as a tagline, it's that "she's (nearly) as strong as this man over there." That's pretty off-brand for a character built around feminism and equality and self-empowerment.

Diana was meant to be Clark's equal. But I don't think it's necessarily meant in a literal "I can lift everything you can" sense. Diana is Clark's equal not because she can bench press the same weight and do the exact same things, but because she's just as capable and competent in a overall capacity by doing things her way, and surpasses Clark in several areas.

[Gaelforce]

Okay, folks, let's take it down a notch.

Enough with the personal shots, the all caps YELLING and the thousand !!!!!!!

Civil conversation or the bans will start followed by shutting this thread down if it continues.

[NaVi]

How would Superman fans feel if they took his origin, his culture, his beliefs, his side characters, his entire history, AND his powers; chewed them up, spat them back out, and told fans to except it? That's exactly what happened in the Nu52 with Wonder Woman. Clay origin? gone. Loving sisters? gone. Amazon technology? gone. Amazon history? gone. Goddesses? gone. Compassion and wisdom? gone. Since 2011 we got an angry Zena warrior woman clone masquerading as wonder woman, swinging a sword and shouting about loving to fight. Now... FINALLY... WW fans are seeing her get back to her established roots; amazons that are loving and supportive, Diana reconnecting with Donna (hopefully Cassie too), amazons having advanced technology, Diana's own villains getting rebooted, and so on... And YES, part of this resurgence is knowing just how powerful Diana is.

The thing that you don't seem to understand is that despite all of this, Superman is still way better off than her. 2 solo titles. Respected editing mandates. established history and supporting cast that barely gets changed. The guy that gets to show off the other 90% of the time when its not Batman.

All this WW stuff is happening in one book... and don't worry it rarely gets featured in JL or JLD or YJ. The amazons in the previous run in JL returned to their bronze age man hating NU52 ways, albeit for a brief moment.

So Diana gets to finally do SOMETHING in a JL book and you throw a hissy fit because?

Do you want me to sit here and just show/tell you EVERYTHING that Diana has done since rebirth in JL and compare that to what Superman has done? would you like to see that comparison? What should I bring up first? Diana getting trapped in some dimension in the very first JL rebirth issue and not doing anything for the entire story. How about the time she was just standing there as a background character holding a sword/shield because the writer couldn't be bothered to give her something to do, I got a lot of those. How about the time she nearly died to a ricochet bullet or accidently caused a nun to be killed, that was in the same story ark. Or that Aquaman/Wonder Woman JL story were Diana was barely in it.

It is not only ww that changes, the kents die. and they revive every 5 years, superman became a descendant of rao (god), the relationship with his son is null, superboy comes and goes, nobody knows what is real and not about him, the superman villains are not his, breiniac he's a league villain, darkseid is now more of a batman and ww villain, maxima is now a lesbian and you're close to ww, cyborg superman is from the green lanterns, lex i don't even remember the last time he was superman villain. evil forever, superman the first to fall, darkseid war, was defeated in seconds by ww, trinity war superman is poisoned and ww has to save him, in all the new 52 his role was to be in the shade without saying anything and when the villain appears superman is defeated or controlled, ww comes out almost in all Superman comics, how many of ww Superman have come out.