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  1. #256
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    For Diana, love, empathy, and leadership are "basic" powers!
    No one is saying that she shouldn't be these things.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  2. #257
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    For Diana, love, empathy, and leadership are "basic" powers!
    No, these are part of Wonder Woman's powers, as much so as are her unbeatable STRENGTH, speed, stamina, agility, compassion, truth, animal empathy and magical weapons, such as her unbreakable Lasso of Truth.

  3. #258
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I (and I guess Ascended) wants to explore the powers she received from Amazon training and from Hestia, Aphrodite, Athena, and Artemis.
    That is exactly it. Diana has a very robust powerset and it's almost never used to full effect.....hell it's barely used to half effect. I'd rather see writers delve into all of her abilities and talents, rather than focusing on one facet where she doesn't even have the agency to decide what her own limits are.

    Speaking of her extended abilities/powers.....how has she been treated in JLDark? I hear good things and keep meaning to grab the trades but with so much uncertainty in the world right now it's pretty low on the priority list. Has Dark shown Diana using magic or anything like that? I'm assuming she's not in the "magic Justice League" book and doing nothing but punching things and swinging a sword?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    For Diana, love, empathy, and leadership are "basic" powers!
    Those aren't super powers so much as personality traits. And they should be emphasized, yes, but they aren't super powers.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 07-24-2020 at 08:35 AM.

  5. #260
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    That is exactly it. Diana has a very robust powerset and it's almost never used to full effect.....hell it's barely used to half effect. I'd rather see writers delve into all of her abilities and talents, rather than focusing on one facet where she doesn't even have the agency to decide what her own limits are.

    Speaking of her extended abilities/powers.....how has she been treated in JLDark? I hear good things and keep meaning to grab the trades but with so much uncertainty in the world right now it's pretty low on the priority list. Has Dark shown Diana using magic or anything like that? I'm assuming she's not in the "magic Justice League" book and doing nothing but punching things and swinging a sword?
    Somewhat, not really in the same way like what Zatanna or Constantine do but more in the way of powered up magic forms.

    I'd say it's been a better showcase of her being a team leader than using magic.

  6. #261
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    No, they havent.

    No its not unbreakable..

    Diana IS a simple mortal....

    And NO Darkseid is NO Jobber, he lost because he usually relies on AVATARS...This was also the explanation why Brainiac often loses.

    Brainiac and Darkseid use most of the time Avatars for fighting which arent as powerful as they are themselves.
    From DC's official site:

    "She carries the Lasso, also known as the Lasso of Truth (or the Lasso of Hestia). An unbreakable lariat which compels anyone who touches it to tell the truth, it can bind beings as strong as Superman."

    and from DC Database:

    "The lasso was forged by Hephaestus, the god of metalworking, from the Golden Girdle of Gaea (this girdle was once worn by Antiope, sister of the future Queen Hippolyta). The lasso is completely unbreakable, immutable, and indestructible."

    And from DC-Marvel wiki:

    "Lasso of Truth: Diana's most famous and iconic weapon, it is a magical lasso forged and blessed by the gods. to be completely indestructible even to entities as powerful as Superman."

    Of course there are the rare exceptions in stories over the years, just like Superman is 'invulnerable' and yet has been bruised, cut and had bones broken by non-magical/non-Kryptonite methods.

    So let's stop beating this particular dead horse.

    Btw, Batman did a flying kick once and knocked Darkseid back and gave him a bloody nose. Does this mean that Darkseid can be beaten up by a mere mortal?

    No, it means that sometimes writers and artists get it wrong.

    As to immortality (never aging)? Well, she's certainly not a simple mortal. She's the daughter of immortal Hippolyta and immortal Zeus. She doesn't age in the movie, and, since post-Crisis, there's been no mention of Amazons aging because they leave Themyscira.

    To clear it up, though, according to Wikipedia, DC declared her as being immortal in DC Nation Vol 2, #4. It also came up (if I remember correctly) in a discussion about Heroes in Crisis where it was revealed that Diana's hang-up is her concern over everyone dying as she continues to live out her immortal life.

  7. #262
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Yes, and I also believe that Diana has now been called a demi-goddess.

  8. #263
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Somewhat, not really in the same way like what Zatanna or Constantine do but more in the way of powered up magic forms.

    I'd say it's been a better showcase of her being a team leader than using magic.
    Good, that's what I'd want from her. I'd be down with Diana having certain myth based abilities, like being able to open a portal to Olympus or automatically detect lies or something (just random examples) but I don't really want her casting a bunch of spells like a classical wizard.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  9. #264
    Fantastic Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    That is exactly it. Diana has a very robust powerset and it's almost never used to full effect.....hell it's barely used to half effect. I'd rather see writers delve into all of her abilities and talents, rather than focusing on one facet where she doesn't even have the agency to decide what her own limits are.

    Speaking of her extended abilities/powers.....how has she been treated in JLDark? I hear good things and keep meaning to grab the trades but with so much uncertainty in the world right now it's pretty low on the priority list. Has Dark shown Diana using magic or anything like that? I'm assuming she's not in the "magic Justice League" book and doing nothing but punching things and swinging a sword?
    If she doesn't even shine with her most well known powers, we can't expect better for the rest. First they need to work in showing her strength, striking, speed, healing and durability in big ways again.

  10. #265
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    No one is saying that she shouldn't be these things.
    You literally wrote "most basic power set (strength, speed, and durability)" in the post I replied to. That gives a rather clear hierarchy of Diana's powers, and one that I disagree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Those aren't super powers so much as personality traits. And they should be emphasized, yes, but they aren't super powers.
    Strength and speed are basic physical traits that can be treated as super powers. So why can't personality traits or mental capabilities be super powers too?
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #266
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Strength and speed are basic physical traits that can be treated as super powers. So why can't personality traits or mental capabilities be super powers too?
    Context.

    Shazam has the "wisdom of Solomon" and that counts as a power, as it's something Billy doesn't have otherwise. Mr. Terrific's intellect isn't a power, it's part of his baseline genetics, education, training, etc. A telepath's mental capabilities are obviously a super power, while Superman's leadership abilities (y'know, when DC writes him correctly) aren't due to yellow sun but his natural aptitudes, but his intellect *is* increased by sunlight, so part of his IQ counts as a super power while the rest of it is just Clark's baseline.

    Diana's leadership abilities are, in my mind, a natural part of her ability and skillset and education. These natural skills might be enhanced by the gods' blessings but if you took those blessings away from her with a curse or some other de-powering gimmick, she's still going to be a skilled tactician, leader, and diplomat. She might lose a certain amount of insight if her blessings were taken but she's still naturally intelligent and trained to someday take a throne.
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-24-2020 at 04:56 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #267
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Strength and speed are basic physical traits that can be treated as super powers. So why can't personality traits or mental capabilities be super powers too?
    Using the climax of the movie as an example, love is most certainly a power

  13. #268
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Context.

    Shazam has the "wisdom of Solomon" and that counts as a power, as it's something Billy doesn't have otherwise. Mr. Terrific's intellect isn't a power, it's part of his baseline genetics, education, training, etc. A telepath's mental capabilities are obviously a super power, while Superman's leadership abilities (y'know, when DC writes him correctly) aren't due to yellow sun but his natural aptitudes, but his intellect *is* increased by sunlight, so part of his IQ counts as a super power while the rest of it is just Clark's baseline.

    Diana's leadership abilities are, in my mind, a natural part of her ability and skillset and education. These natural skills might be enhanced by the gods' blessings but if you took those blessings away from her with a curse or some other de-powering gimmick, she's still going to be a skilled tactician, leader, and diplomat. She might lose a certain amount of insight if her blessings were taken but she's still naturally intelligent and trained to someday take a throne.
    Explain Batman then…

    Personally, I think the above distinctions are differences that doesn't really matter to anything in practice.

    Anything can be made into a superpower, if it is approached as one. It is certainly easier to visually imagine super-strength or flight. But the 2017 movie certainly managed to make love, compassion, and empathy into superpowers, as Gaelforce already pointed out.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Strength and speed are basic physical traits that can be treated as super powers. So why can't personality traits or mental capabilities be super powers too?
    Because then we'd have to say Batman has super powers too.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    LMAO, are you using the movie version of Thor as a comparison? Sure, ok, I mean that's actually like comparing an avatar of Darkseid with Darkseid himself.

    Again with this "impossible and ridiculous" nonsense, 1) this is comics, impossible stuff happens all the time 2) show me with feats or your wrong

    Diana is immortal, stated a dozen times.

    again, LMAO, "what the characters are capable of doesn't matter because I don't want it to" is a hot take I wasn't expecting but, I'm not entirely surprised by.
    She is mortal....

    I am NOT using the Movie Version of Thor!

    I only tell you how it should have worked with the lasso..

    In-Canon Feats are ridiculous and mean NOTHING!! BECAUSE and now READ!!

    Phantom Stranger is the most powerful being in DC behind Elaine,Presence,Spectre,Michael and Lucifer..
    Not even "Gods" like Zeus or Darkseid come close to him in terms of powers.

    So if you compare Superman being captured by the Lasso with capturing Phantom Stranger you are comparing holding a pencil with holding the world.

    You simply dont know who the Phantom Stranger is...

    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Actually yes they have.

    It is unbreakable. It's part of what the lasso is.

    Diana is not a simple mortal. She is a Demi Goddess who doesn't age and has powers from multiple Gods

    Darkseid is more than once treated as a jobber.
    No, they didnt...If you have some, then list them.....

    Its NOT unbreakable, its like Thors Hammer....Unbreakable until someone breaks it...

    Darkseid uses AVATARS!! He DOESNT fight in his true form...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    From DC's official site:

    "She carries the Lasso, also known as the Lasso of Truth (or the Lasso of Hestia). An unbreakable lariat which compels anyone who touches it to tell the truth, it can bind beings as strong as Superman."

    and from DC Database:

    "The lasso was forged by Hephaestus, the god of metalworking, from the Golden Girdle of Gaea (this girdle was once worn by Antiope, sister of the future Queen Hippolyta). The lasso is completely unbreakable, immutable, and indestructible."

    And from DC-Marvel wiki:

    "Lasso of Truth: Diana's most famous and iconic weapon, it is a magical lasso forged and blessed by the gods. to be completely indestructible even to entities as powerful as Superman."

    Of course there are the rare exceptions in stories over the years, just like Superman is 'invulnerable' and yet has been bruised, cut and had bones broken by non-magical/non-Kryptonite methods.

    So let's stop beating this particular dead horse.

    Btw, Batman did a flying kick once and knocked Darkseid back and gave him a bloody nose. Does this mean that Darkseid can be beaten up by a mere mortal?

    No, it means that sometimes writers and artists get it wrong.

    As to immortality (never aging)? Well, she's certainly not a simple mortal. She's the daughter of immortal Hippolyta and immortal Zeus. She doesn't age in the movie, and, since post-Crisis, there's been no mention of Amazons aging because they leave Themyscira.

    To clear it up, though, according to Wikipedia, DC declared her as being immortal in DC Nation Vol 2, #4. It also came up (if I remember correctly) in a discussion about Heroes in Crisis where it was revealed that Diana's hang-up is her concern over everyone dying as she continues to live out her immortal life.
    I dont know what do you want to say with these citations etc.

    They mean nothing-thats ridiculous...

    Phantom Stranger is OUTSIDE of any classification, not even Gods can compare to him....

    Even Mjölnir was said that its indestrucatable and Mjölnir was destroyed.

    Its unbreakable until someone breaks it and the Phantom Stranger is EASILY in the class to break it..

    You compare AVATAR Darkseid with REAL Darkseid, it doesnt make any sense...

    Immortality in DC only exist for 2 beings: Presence and Spectre.
    Presence because its logical and Spectre, because he exists as long as there is a desire for Vengeance.

    Zeus,Diana,Darkseid....are mortals..

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