Wonder Woman OP??

[Mel Dyer]

Just because an energy is unlimited does not mean that the being that uses that energy has unlimited power, it all depends on the energy that he is able to take advantage of, so Olympus' excuse is not worth it. you can't want ww, be the second most powerful (now the most powerful and by far), the best warrior, without weakness, and that everyone applaud. Superman and his fans have been criticized for being too powerful a character. because ww and his fans (and anyone) can't be told anything.

I didn't say Wonder Woman had "unlimited power", and that is not what the Byrne mandate established, way back in 1995. I said that Wonder Woman has enough "Olympian magic" to make her second-only-to-Superman, which is what the mandate clarifies. I am in agreement with you that, while magic may be unquantifiable - virtually, limitless - the super-power of Wonder Woman and Superman ..is not limitless.

Again, when Shazam does it - uses Greek god power to pimp-slap Superman or Super-anybody into a skyscraper - I don't hear us he-men howling in protest, ..the way we do, when Wonder Woman does the same thing. There's a lot of Wonder-fans, out here, who have a serious problem, with that. Furthermore, I don't think we're blaming you for the confusion, because it's the cruddy way that editors allow writers to treat anything (ANY-thing) and anyone, associated with Wonder Woman, that bugged things up, in the first place! What is Greek god power worth, in the DCU, if Shazam can beat Superman, who can beat Darkseid, who can beat Wonder Woman's father, Zeus?

Very confusing.

We've seen Superman, several times, beat the hell out of Darkseid, who straight-up killed* Zeus, king of the Greek gods AND Wonder Woman's father - presently, her chief power source - all in the same comic universe. THAT is some confusing 'i-iittt, yollz. So, if Darkeid can murder the king of the Greek gods, ..shouldn't Superman, Batman and everybody else conceivably be able to beat Wonder Woman? Seems like it. That sure makes a cyclical sense to me...

Even if it's complete sch'malarkey. Kanga chips.

When it comes to Wonder Woman, the Byrne giveth, taketh away - then, giveth ..uh-gain! In fact, it was John Byrne, who established the DCU's greek gods, as off-shoot cousins of the New Gods, and, as such, ..less powerful, than them. Metron, in a Byrne WW story (vol. 2, #103), said the Greek gods were "mere shadows" of the least of New Genesis. Then, Byrne wrapped the Genesis miniseries, ..with ARES, Greek god of war, beating Darkseid, Highfather, Shazam and Deepak Chopra. The grating, Vaderesque, George Perez Ares, enemy of Wonder Woman, actually killed Darkseid in a comic! While that was a GREAT day to be a Wonder Woman fan [Woo'woo!], and in spite of our gratitude for the Byrne mandate, ..it didn't solve the problem so many fans have with Wonder Woman's power being as respected, as Superman's.

*Wonder Woman fans know Darkseid cannot and did not kill Zeus. Zeus is a cheeky one, and has been since before the Iliad. He allows Superman, Darkseid and other DC metas to think they can beat up or kill Olympian gods, ..because it amuses him to do so. He will do it, again...play opossum. Then, when the lights are low and the water in the bubble bath has cooled, on Valentine's Day, at the Kent residence, ..Zeus will cause shrinkage. You know shrinkage. He's the god of shrinkage ..and the other thing--so, writers better watch it! Darkseid cannot and did not kill Zeus.

[WonderLight789]

They are almost omnipotent, if that is not enough, I think it is indisputable proof that ww is a Mary Sue

Well, let her be a mary sue for a change. If that is how you see it. batman, superman and others have had many more moments where they are shown as the best all around. So it won't kill anybody if Diana has some moments like that too.

[WonderLight789]

IT DOESNT MATTER!!!!

1. Lasso SHOULDNT!!!! have any effect on him!!!
Phantom Stranger,Spectre,Lucifer,Michael,Elaine,Presence.. ...should be immune to the lasso.
They are ALL somehow related to the Presence and therefore should be immune to the lasso!!!!

Presence created everything and he is the only TRUE GOD-Zeus,Hera,Darkseid.....are only his creations and Phantom Stranger,Spectre.....should be immune to such powers.



Superman isnt said to be the most powerful being, but he is the INSPIRATION!!!!! etc. for others...
People listen to him, he is an idol etc. etc.



KC Superman, Magog, Captain Atom etc.

but for Power Girl is difficult because like I said she had many different origins, before becoming Kryptonian...

And actually WHO said that Power Girl is stronger than Diana only because of her kryptonian physiology???
I DIDNT!!

I said:

Power Girl>>>>>Supergirl
and not because of Kryptonian Physiology! Its because Power Girl spent more time under yellow sun and is older and therefore stronger than Supergirl!!



If you are able to "defeat" the Phantom Stranger you are basically OP...
Sorry, but NO ONE not even Superman,Orion,Darkseid......should be able to do something like that to Phantom Stranger!!!



I DONT see Zeus etc. as "real gods"...

Presence is the only god, while Zeus,Darkseid etc. were only made by him and only exist because he wants them to exist.

I actually ALWAYS said that Batman is to powerful....

Superman always said that Martian Manhunter is one of the beings he fears to fight against, Wonder Woman showed also that she can defeat Superman in battle thanks to her skills....

And also this with Tartaros was OP: sorry, but BATMAN the one who has a Contingency Plan for everyone, doesnt know what Tartaros is-something which EVERYONE can find in the Internet and has to ask Diana???

And its not only that:
Like I said with the other link:
Male members of JL only use brute force, while Diana because she is a woman uses her intelligence...

And sorry but NO!! in the last YEARS it was always Diana who got the biggest push...

Starting with her becoming Zeus daughter, then getting Goddess of War and getting even a GOD-MODE (I think it was in NEW52 when she removed the bracelets...)

Based on actual feats. Wonder Woman>Supergirl>Powergirl. And based on their fights. WW>SG>PG. The rest that you say is just speculation with no real evidence.

The lasso shouldn't work just because you say so? It is said to be unbreakable and able to make anybody tell the truth. So yes, it should work on stranger too.

When WW has been writen as a dumb warrior bitch that only knows brute force, i didn't see people like you make threads about it. Now that she had some good moments after a long time of bad characterization, that is a problem? Sigh

[Shadowedeyes]

I lhad excused myself of this thread earlier, but I wanted to comment on the Phantom Stranger thing. Phantom Strange may have gotten power from the Presence, but he is not the Presence. Same way Silver Surfer was empowered by Galactus but is not Galactus's equal. In fact, even just in the DC universe this was shown when The Spectre, another Presence empowered entity, pretty easily beat Phantom Stranger(off panel even!) during Days of Vengeance. So clearly there are different levels to someone getting power from the Presence.

[enish]

To the OP:

Wait until you read Wonder Woman: Dead Earth!

She...kills Superman in it. She overpowers him and and stabs him with kryptonite through the chest.

Does it hurt that much that Superman is no longer the only top dog in the DCU?

[NaVi]

To the OP:

Wait until you read Wonder Woman: Dead Earth!

She...kills Superman in it. She overpowers him and and stabs him with kryptonite through the chest.

Does it hurt that much that Superman is no longer the only top dog in the DCU?

Superman is a great dog without killing his friends and then fixing his spines with a pathetic excuse. It hurts so bad that someone criticizes the spoiled DC girl

[WonderLight789]

Superman is a great dog without killing his friends and then fixing his spines with a pathetic excuse. It hurts so bad that someone criticizes the spoiled DC girl

superman has killed many times. And he has been spoiled far more than WW.

[SiegePerilous02]

To the OP:

Wait until you read Wonder Woman: Dead Earth!

She...kills Superman in it. She overpowers him and and stabs him with kryptonite through the chest.

Does it hurt that much that Superman is no longer the only top dog in the DCU?

Is the portrayal really something to be happy about wit Wonder Woman?

Her murdering her friend isn't a good look for her. That comic doesn't do either of them favors, but it may be worse for her, victory or no.

[The tall man]

To the OP:

Wait until you read Wonder Woman: Dead Earth!

She...kills Superman in it. She overpowers him and and stabs him with kryptonite through the chest.

Does it hurt that much that Superman is no longer the only top dog in the DCU?

If this played out in reverse would you be okay or have a problem with it. I'm sure Supes killing Wonder Woman and flying around with her spine as a weapon would go over real well here. The problem is that Superman should not be disrespected, written down or treated like a clown for the sake of making another character look good. But that's the role he has been relegated to.

[Agent Z]

If this played out in reverse would you be okay or have a problem with it. I'm sure Supes killing Wonder Woman and flying around with her spine as a weapon would go over real well here. The problem is that Superman should not be disrespected, written down or treated like a clown for the sake of making another character look good. But that's the role he has been relegated to.

For what it's worth, I hated that moment too.

[WonderLight789]

If this played out in reverse would you be okay or have a problem with it. I'm sure Supes killing Wonder Woman and flying around with her spine as a weapon would go over real well here. The problem is that Superman should not be disrespected, written down or treated like a clown for the sake of making another character look good. But that's the role he has been relegated to.

The times superman has already killed WW say hi. The real problem here is that no character should be disrespected or writen down to make another character look good. Yet most of the time, when there is a crisis or an apocalyptic type of event, WW is usually one of the first to go down to show how big the threat is. While the likes of Batman or Superman are shown as the last hope standing. Death Earth WW is one of the few examples where the roles were switched. It doesn't mean that i like WW killing SM. But let's not act like WW isn't treated as a punching bag more often than SM. Because he tends to have far more moments showing him as the best all around than WW. SM doesn't deserve disrespect, but WW shouldn't be disrespected either.

[Gaius]

Can't say I'm a fan of the Superman spine thing from Dead Earth but it's worth noting Wonder Woman beating him in the fight isn't presented in the story as some triumphant moment like say the Batman/Superman fight from DKR.

Also don't really recall people, outside of some on this subforum, getting up in arms of Wonder Woman getting jobbed out in the various DCeased stories.

[SiegePerilous02]

The times superman has already killed WW say hi. The real problem here is that no character should be disrespected or writen down to make another character look good. Yet most of the time, when there is a crisis or an apocalyptic type of event, WW is usually one of the first to go down to show how big the threat is. While the likes of Batman or Superman are shown as the last hope standing. Death Earth WW is one of the few examples where the roles were switched. It doesn't mean that i like WW killing SM. But let's not act like WW isn't treated as a punching bag more often than SM. Because tends to have far more moments showing him as the best all around than WW. SM doesn't deserve disrespect, and WW shouldn't be disrespected either.

Is this a "two wrongs make a right" situation? I don't think most Superman fans are also thrilled with seeing Wonder Woman be treated as a punching bag and are especially not thrilled if Superman is the one beating her up. Because nobody wants to see their hero beat a woman.

Anyway, Superman has endured worse than being killed off in an elseworld Wonder Woman comic that even WW fans are reacting towards with
This not being a terribly flattering portrayal of Diana herself is probably worse.

[WonderLight789]

Can't say I'm a fan of the Superman spine thing from Dead Earth but it's worth noting Wonder Woman beating him in the fight isn't presented in the story as some triumphant moment like say the Batman/Superman fight from DKR.

Also don't really recall people, outside of some on this subforum, getting up in arms of Wonder Woman getting jobbed out in the various DCeased stories.

Pretty much this. When it's WW the one jobbing or having bad characterizations. The same people that compain about her being "OP" are nowhere to be found. But they are the first to demand respect when Superman and others get a bad treatment.

[WonderLight789]

Is this a "two wrongs make a right" situation? I don't think most Superman fans are also thrilled with seeing Wonder Woman be treated as a punching bag and are especially not thrilled if Superman is the one beating her up. Because nobody wants to see their hero beat a woman.

Anyway, Superman has endured worse than being killed off in an elseworld Wonder Woman comic that even WW fans are reacting towards with
This not being a terribly flattering portrayal of Diana herself is probably worse.

No. But i'm just tired of what seems to be double standards. Based on things i have seen in different forums(outside this one), a good portion of SM fans seem to think that WW should be an ant next to sm. That he should easily beat her. For years now, WW has been mostly a background character in team books doing nothing important most of the time, while SM still is treated most of the time as a top gun and the hope of DC along with BM. So why is a thread like this going on for so many pages, when WW doesn't even have half the moments of "i'm the best all around" that the other 2 have? In my opinion, i don't need WW beating any other hero. I would just like to see her and her verse playing a bigger part in the DC universe, like i think it should be. In a perfect world the so called trinity would be treated with equal respect, and we wouldn't need to be talking about WW being "OP".