Has rape ever been used well in the DCU?

[Vakanai]

Morrison clearly stated that Damian's origin are based on Son of Demon comic, and on that their intercourse is consensual. Morrison made a mistake from the start. Morrison even already stated that he's misremembered, apologized for it, then Tomasi retconned that.
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Looking for some argument that says "Batman can't be that reckless to perform unsafe sex, he's too smart for that" for me made him less humanized. He can't be on 'World's Greatest Detective' mode all the time. He was on desert, faced many of Ra's challenges, tired in both body and mind. Then a beautiful woman appear, and suggest him to forget of his discipline and control and just let go for once. I can't blame him for taking that invitation.

Because you said Damian was a stupid idea and the date rape is the only way to make it work. Whereas some of us think "Bruce would never ever get someone pregnant without planning for it" is pretty flimsy.

He let go for one night with a woman he had feelings for after he was mentally and physically exhausted. It's really not that much of a stretch




Because having Batman get raped is a pretty loaded event that Morrison doesn't really spend time on. It's not worth doing if it isn't going to be explored well. Even the infamous flashback panel to the issue in question (with Bruce being buck naked save for the Batman mask lol) shows him passionately kissing and embracing Talia, not lying in a delirious state while she has her way with him.

In some instances, Talia probably wouldn't be. But neither is Bruce. Considering how childish Morrison's Bruce can be when it comes to relationships, the ambiguity even in Damian's introduction issue and the flashbacks in her later issue, we can probably lean more towards Talia in this instance. Morrison recognizing his mistake and tweaking it is actually a good thing, especially with such a loaded topic that doesn't have a history of being handled well

I think the issue you are following into is that Morrison clearly wrote Damian as being a product of the story “Son of the Demon” where there was no date rape. Morrison by his own admission made a mistake on recalling the story and course corrected and every writer since has followed suit.

So with that particular instance the issue is more about the context of the stories involved and a mistake that allowed the plot point of date rape to enter into it. Talia is a more reliable narrator because we literally have the story that Damian was conceived in as an actual account in comic history.

That’s what it comes down to. There is no reason why Bruce can’t just sleep with a women without protection in the heat of the moment with an impending battle coming up and it resulting in pregnancy. The story is proof of that enough.

Holy fudge monkey did I hit a nerve. Three big posts in a short time frame. Do you really think it's fair to try and respond to all this? I'm swamped so I'm out.

[Arctic Cyclist]

So? It became continuity. It happens in comics, things change. It makes more story sense, we couldn't have Damian otherwise. Bruce is too smart to just risk making a kid like that. To get Damian it has to be rape or his judgement must be impaired.

Really? Carrie Kelley, Helena Kyle, and that girl from Batman: the Dark Prince Charming all indicate otherwise.

Either that or Bruce has a weird rape fetish which considering his relationships with Selina and Poison Ivy does make a lot of sense.

For the record, even Hush established that Bruce and Talia had had consensual sex multiple times. It wasn't a one off deal. No Man's Land #0, which was the inspiration for the Paris issue of King's run, heavily implied that Talia not only stayed the night at Bruce's request but that we should be expecting Athanasia to show up. There's some great sly humor in Bruce's call to Lucius about a girl showing up to slap sense into him and get him back in groove. For once, Bruce wasn't lying and it's an awesome, well written set of scenes.

[Vakanai]

Really? Carrie Kelley, Helena Kyle, and that girl from Batman: the Dark Prince Charming all indicate otherwise.

Either that or Bruce has a weird rape fetish which considering his relationships with Selina and Poison Ivy does make a lot of sense.

For the record, even Hush established that Bruce and Talia had had consensual sex multiple times. It wasn't a one off deal. No Man's Land #0, which was the inspiration for the Paris issue of King's run, heavily implied that Talia not only stayed the night at Bruce's request but that we should be expecting Athanasia to show up. There's some great sly humor in Bruce's call to Lucius about a girl showing up to slap sense into him and get him back in groove. For once, Bruce wasn't lying and it's an awesome, well written set of scenes.

I'm already out, I'm not going to debate four people at once.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Holy fudge monkey did I hit a nerve. Three big posts in a short time frame. Do you really think it's fair to try and respond to all this? I'm swamped so I'm out.

They were all literally the same thing. It’s not hard. You’re arguing against a story that actually happened where we know what happened and the author who followed up on it to create Damian misremembered part of it and admitted to it. It’s really not complicated

[Vakanai]

They were all literally the same thing.

I didn't read them. I see that many responses I wash my hands of it. I've been in enough really big debates that I've had enough. If it looks like it has ballooned I learned to quit.

It’s not hard. You’re arguing against a story that actually happened where we know what happened and the author who followed up on it to create Damian misremembered part of it and admitted to it. It’s really not complicated

No I'm not - I'm arguing from a different story that occurred later, when we meet Damian. Your arguing from a story decades earlier. And who cares? Why did the date rape bit trigger you that much? Would Damian somehow be worse or less to you if they had kept that bit of his origin?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I didn't read them. I see that many responses I wash my hands of it. I've been in enough really big debates that I've had enough. If it looks like it has ballooned I learned to quit.



No I'm not - I'm arguing from a different story that occurred later, when we meet Damian. Your arguing from a story decades earlier. And who cares? Why did the date rape bit trigger you that much? Would Damian somehow be worse or less to you if they had kept that bit of his origin?

The reason the story is relevant is because Morrison explicitly said that story was the basis for the conception of Damian. Morrison also explicitly stated that he misremembered it as date rape, got it wrong, and changed it. There’s just no confusion on this one

[Vakanai]

The reason the story is relevant is because Morrison explicitly said that story was the basis for the conception of Damian. Morrison also explicitly stated that he misremembered it as date rape, got it wrong, and changed it. There’s just no confusion on this one

Based on can mean "loosely based on" you know.
But I will accept that he changed it. I still prefer the other version to be honest though. No way can that brat be the result of love.

[ChangingStation]

During the Robin solo, it was revealed after her father died, that when she was 11, Stephanie Brown's babysitter who Wanda friend of her father, tried to sexually assault and though she ran away, when she tried to tell her father, he was more concerned about how it looked for him. When she later became a vigilante, she tried tracking the guy down, he'd been killed by a drug overdose despite not taking drugs just a little while after she told her father. It caused her to get angry due to not knowing if her father killed him because he loved her or if she was his.

I don't know if that counts as an appropriate use of sexual assault in a story, but her later torture by Black Mask definitely wasn't, it was far more gratuitous.

[kcekada]

I think the moment someone can say "Oh my, this was a well done rape; I love it" we have a serious problem.

I agree! I will say that Alan Moore used it way too often. Babs and Dinah were not raped. Sue Dibney was -- and I hate that story -- not just because of the rape. To think that the Satellite era JLA would have trouble putting down Deathstroke is ridiculous. And also, Zatanna's amnesia spell was magical not physical -- should have done no permanent damage to Dr. Light's brain. Dr. Light was just a putz -- same as many Silver Age villains who had gimmicks. No explanation was needed.