Page 23 of 25 FirstFirst ... 1319202122232425 LastLast
Results 331 to 345 of 369
  1. #331
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,950

    Default

    So the thread is still hung up on the Twitter nonsense? You know you should be worried that they're milking Watchmen and this could go poorly.

    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Tom king's CIA credentials should matter.

    How does a former CIA Operations Officer fail at the literal thing that used to be his bread and Butter? Researching and fact checking prior to recruitment. That's what Ops officers do. It should be second nature to King.

    This was a huge and harmful blunder on his part.

    A writer as high profile as King with such a large following on Twitter should be aware of the influence he has.

    Tom King should learn to tweet responsively. How he finds time to tweet so much with all the thing's he's working on is beyond me.

    For those saying that well he apologised. I guess we are all good now right because he apologised? smh
    Honestly, the funny part is people who never in the CIA deduced that Jae Lee only did that cover because he knew EVS way before Tom King came onto the comics scene. King just escalated things because he was only thinking of himself instead of Lee like he said in his "apology".
    "Cable was right!"

  2. #332
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Naboo
    Posts
    5,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Many of these bans came from something that was said by or about someone on social media. Lee could just as easily have ended up blacklisted as a result of what King did. Handling this in private at least means it wouldn't be scandalized and meant an investigation could be done at a far better time.
    This event is an example though of this sort of 'calling' out correcting itself. If Tom King thought Jae Lee was problem-o-matic others likely did too (I'm guessing here, but it was likely Tom King's fanbase that brought this up to him), so its better these accusations are made in the open and Jae Lee rebutted his claim. I understand that Tom King suffered personal anguish as a result of this affair and that sucks and King has acknowledged that.

    Let me get this straight; King shouldn't have gone after Van Sciver, the self-proclaimed leader of comicsgate, because he's "immunized from attack" but potentially getting a guy who wasn't actually a part of comicsgate blacklisted was acceptable? What even is the point of combating comicsgate then?
    Tom King was actually going after EVS, you don't really accomplish much by directly criticizing him. Most people in the industry know who EVS is already and what he represents. This is actually the reason why Tom King reliable thought EVS was involved in CG; you have to be extremely ignorant of the happenings going on in the industry not to know who EVS, which Jae Lee was. We make these associations all the time, if someone was working with Richard Spencer or Louis Farrakhan in a public manner (as opposed to something like custodial work), your going to assume they are ideologically linked.

    If you dislike CG and want to reduce the movements influence, the best thing you can do is target people other than EVS and other creative heads. Artists and other taletn, including publishers, won't work for CGers if they think it'll be toxic for their careers, so Tom King, attacking an artist that worked for EVS, was a way to reinforce this point.
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  3. #333
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    What do you people think Tom King did at the CIA? Just because he worked for the CIA doesn't mean he was involved in research or conspiring to overthrow anti-American regimes.

    Also, I keep hearing that that King didn't do his research, but all the evidence that vindicated Jae Lee came out because of this event. King acted the way he did because Jae Lee did work for EVS and that was really all we knew at the time regarding Lee's association with CG. Jae Lee admits he stays off social media, what Lee believes isn't obvious.
    His wife posted a pic of him on the ground with a gun during iraq 2 so he was very much actively involved.

    I dont want to conflate that with comicsgate thing (even though i have done) but its very very hard to see how a cia agent fully tooled up on the ground during iraq 2 is in anyway the person to write the follow up to anarchist acidhead warlock who inspired a generation of ethical hackers, anti capitalists and whoever wears those v for vendetta masks. There is something very 'not right' imo about following Alans work up with people who are fundamentally the antithesis. Whether its the global corporatising of his stories into something 'safer' and more marketable going into the future... i dont know but reconciling the man who wrote this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brought_to_Light with a cia operative writing the follow up..

    If comicsgate had written a sequel to watchmen there would be hell on (and rightly so) but this seems equally wrong in a different way.

    As every year goes by we are a year further away from Alan and a year closer to the Simpsons prophecy of Watchmen Babies.

    (And id be very interested in a sgt rock book by tom king based on his unique experience and i fully endorse CIA fighting boko haram so Im not anti either of them per se)
    Last edited by iron chimp; 08-05-2020 at 12:49 PM.

  4. #334
    DARKSEID LAUGHS... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    I agree if Tom King went to DC directly, it would have likely led to a worse outcome then what we got. Corporations are far to ban ready right now.
    Easy to be ban happy when there's millions unemployed right now and that's not even counting those who were long-term employed before the pandemic.



    I don't think Tom King should have to bait Jae Lee, a person who he doesn't know, into 'slipping' his mask off.
    What I was referring to was the one post that mentioned that what if the person you were about to talk to privately was a white supremacist. That was me talking about my experience dealing with people like that.


    Because his name was now connected to Jae Lee. This is similar to a 'critic' against feminism I use to see, where Western feminists get called hypocrites for not talking about women in Saudi Arabia...a place they do not live in and have no influence. Generally speaking, you should prioritize making changes you think you actually can accomplish. EVS has already immunized himself from attack; he doesn't work in the mainstream industry, his brand is mostly known by most people, and his income is from like-minded adherents so that can't be easily targeted as well.
    See I disagree with that. White people have more power to change the BS that goes on when it comes to race and yet many have the will but do not have the means to be able to do so. And those who have the means do not want to change. Fortunately that's not the case for Tom King to my knowledge so he could've just called out the movement as a whole, ringleaders included. Maybe he's already done that i dunno.



    I'm saying that Tom King's CIA credentials don't matter. Even if Tom King was a mass murderer (which seems to be the implication here), he can still be right on this issue. Also you should attack institutions broadly, and not the people that work in these places. Tom King joined the CIA after 9/11, which was a broader trend at the time, and not to uphold white supremacy.
    Do you know the history of the CIA and what they've done around the world and continue to do to this day?
    The point is if it was right for Tom King to call out Jae Lee for doing a cover for EVS, a guy who supports Comicsgate (keep getting that confused with Gamergate), then Tom King should be called out for working with the CIA. Jae Lee never expressed support for Comicsgate and had no idea who they were when he did the covers.


    You can't always know the outcome of an action before you do it, but if you acted in good faith in the information available to the public, you shouldn't be raked over the coals as King now is.
    So that doesn't apply to Jae Lee? That doesn't make any sense.
    And even then whatever King's intent was the end result was sending harassment towards Jae Lee. That's the kind of behavior Gamergate and them engage in as well.


    There have been tons of liberals who have been cancelled as well.
    I don't care if Tom King is a liberal or that there are liberals who have been cancelled. I do care that there are people on Twitter, Instagram, you name it who get tons of fans and then send them after people online. And they use the language of social justice for self-promotion and to build their brand.
    Last edited by Crazy Diamond; 08-05-2020 at 01:04 PM.

  5. #335
    DARKSEID LAUGHS... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    So the thread is still hung up on the Twitter nonsense? You know you should be worried that they're milking Watchmen and this could go poorly.
    That's a bit late considering there was Before Watchmen and the movie and the TV show. Alan Moore moved on so I mean I don't think there's anything else to be said about DC being DC.

  6. #336

    Default

    Meh after the show, Doomsday Clock and Before Watchmen, this isn't that big a deal.

    Honestly im curious about it and looking forward to it.

  7. #337
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    See I disagree with that. White people have more power to change the BS that goes on when it comes to race and yet many have the will but do not have the means to be able to do so. And those who have the means do not want to change. Fortunately that's not the case for Tom King to my knowledge so he could've just called out the movement as a whole, ringleaders included. Maybe he's already done that i dunno.
    This would have gotten Jae into trouble, as well since he did a cover for EVS. People would notice the connection and we'd be at square one.



    Do you know the history of the CIA and what they've done around the world and continue to do to this day?
    The point is if it was right for Tom King to call out Jae Lee for doing a cover for EVS, a guy who supports Comicsgate (keep getting that confused with Gamergate), then Tom King should be called out for working with the CIA. Jae Lee never expressed support for Comicsgate and had no idea who they were when he did the covers.
    He knew King drawing attention to what he did would put his career in jeopardy, but only called out King not EVS.

    So that doesn't apply to Jae Lee? That doesn't make any sense.
    And even then whatever King's intent was the end result was sending harassment towards Jae Lee. That's the kind of behavior Gamergate and them engage in as well.
    People were going to react badly to what King said, or anyone, who bought attention to Jae Lee doing a cover for EVS. That was a benign tweet, Comicgate are far more volatile in their response. This is an example of what they do:

    https://twitter.com/TessFowler/statu...34855070294016

    Tess Fowler (currently battling breast cancer����)
    @TessFowler
    ·
    Jul 31
    Here is Ethan Van Sciver and some of his Comicsgate friends discussing my having cancer being an act of God I deserve. Art Thibert is here too laughing away. THIS is Comicsgate. EVS can lie & put a happy face on his hate movement all he wants but this is who they are.



    Tess Fowler (currently battling breast cancer����)
    @TessFowler
    ·
    Jul 31
    Their only goal from day one has been to harm people. No matter how they try to spin it to recruit new folks, THIS is who they are. Today they shared a photo of me on a livestream while discussing me. They've done it a million times before. The goal is to target. Be aware.

    Tess Fowler (currently battling breast cancer����)
    @TessFowler
    ·
    Jul 31
    EVS and Comicsgate have spread disinformation and outright lies about so many people in comics and their cronies just eat up the conspiracy theories. They are racist, sexist, transphobic etc. And it never ends. This is who they are. This is what they represent.
    I don't care if Tom King is a liberal or that there are liberals who have been cancelled. I do care that there are people on Twitter, Instagram, you name it who get tons of fans and then send them after people online. And they use the language of social justice for self-promotion and to build their brand.
    So you think King is lying about caring about Comicsgate?
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 08-05-2020 at 04:33 PM.

  8. #338
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    5,193

    Default

    Yeah I think we are well past the point of Watchmen being some sacred cow that it’s controversial to revisit. We have a prequel comic series, a sequel tv show, and several years of them being incorporated in main continuity along with an event series based around it.

    At this point it’s best to just kinda accept that DC always wanted to use that toy box and finally got to a point where they gave up on getting Moore’s blessing and went about their business.

  9. #339
    Incredible Member Hol's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    You know it's possible to find both to be in the wrong.

    Both Lee and King should have done better research on the people they were working with.
    No. One of them took a job without knowing all the facts and one tried to ruin someones career by outing them without all of the facts.

    One is wrong.

  10. #340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    No. One of them took a job without knowing all the facts and one tried to ruin someones career by outing them without all of the facts.

    One is wrong.
    So one is wrong because they didn't know all the facts but other isn't wrong because they didn't know all the facts. Nice double standard.
    Last Read: Zatanna and the Ripper vol. 1

    Monthly Pull List: Alan Scott: The Green Lantern, Batman, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Beware the Planet of the Apes, Birds of Prey, Daredevil, Green Arrow, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Ducks, Justice Society of America, Negaduck, Nightwing, Phantom Road, Shazam!, Suicide Squad: Dream Team, Superman '78: The Metal Curtain, Thundercats, Titans

  11. #341
    Incredible Member Hol's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    So one is wrong because they didn't know all the facts but other isn't wrong because they didn't know all the facts. Nice double standard.
    No double standard. It is about intent. One tried to ruin someones career and the other "went to work".

    It's as simple as that.

  12. #342

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    No double standard. It is about intent. One tried to ruin someones career and the other "went to work".

    It's as simple as that.
    Intent doesn't mean the actual deed wasn't done. Just because one person was "more wrong" than the other doesn't mean both weren't wrong.
    Last Read: Zatanna and the Ripper vol. 1

    Monthly Pull List: Alan Scott: The Green Lantern, Batman, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Beware the Planet of the Apes, Birds of Prey, Daredevil, Green Arrow, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Ducks, Justice Society of America, Negaduck, Nightwing, Phantom Road, Shazam!, Suicide Squad: Dream Team, Superman '78: The Metal Curtain, Thundercats, Titans

  13. #343
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Port Wenn
    Posts
    414

    Default

    If your standard for association is avoiding anyone that has ever been ignorant on any level, or wrong, or mistaken...then you're going to end up on an island alone - with no toys, no internet, no electronics, no people.

    That's silly. We've all made mistakes. Of judgment. Of intent. Of ignorance. It's why I don't buy moral superiority from whoever might be selling it.

  14. #344
    Incredible Member Hol's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    Intent doesn't mean the actual deed wasn't done. Just because one person was "more wrong" than the other doesn't mean both weren't wrong.
    Not vetting an employer and trying to get some cancelled is a huge difference. Like comparing a shoplifter to Bernie Madoff. Saying they are both wrong in this context is like saying they are equally wrong. IMO.

  15. #345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    Not vetting an employer and trying to get some cancelled is a huge difference. Like comparing a shoplifter to Bernie Madoff. Saying they are both wrong in this context is like saying they are equally wrong. IMO.
    It's in that context because you're putting it in that context. I never once said that Lee's action was worse than King's or the opposite. All I said was that both parties were in the wrong.
    Last Read: Zatanna and the Ripper vol. 1

    Monthly Pull List: Alan Scott: The Green Lantern, Batman, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Beware the Planet of the Apes, Birds of Prey, Daredevil, Green Arrow, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Ducks, Justice Society of America, Negaduck, Nightwing, Phantom Road, Shazam!, Suicide Squad: Dream Team, Superman '78: The Metal Curtain, Thundercats, Titans

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •