Rorschach Maxiseries announced: Tom King and Jorge Fornes.

[iron chimp]

I would say its a dangerous game judging an artist. Obviously each of us has or own breaking point but its definitely problematic.

Bob marley and 100s of rasta musicians praised a murderous absolute monarch who willingly let his subjects starve to death. Great music or propaganda for evil?

Salif Keita and the ambassadeurs - superb band or puppets of murdering one party state.

William burroughs - changed the course of fiction or murdering paedophile?

Dave Sim - superb artist and revolutionary storyteller or creep?

Most of us will have and enjoy things by people who we will fundamentally disagree with regarding lifestyle / politics etc. If we only consume things that we vete to ensure they confirm to our own personal morality / ethics then we are either deluded we have "the masterplan" which everything else must adhere to, or we are never going to leave our safe space and challenge ourselves.

[Steel Inquisitor]

That is a choice that the artist has to make.

If they choose to NOT research or ignore all the evidence a simple search in Twitter alone would do. That is on them and they choose to accept those consequences.

We don't know that because comics is a SMALL thing.

Look at his client list-most of them don't know who the gators are.
Amandla Stenberg is she suppose to know who they are? I am sure they attacked her since she was Rue in the Hunger Games. Yet Lee is doing variants for her book.
DC? Because if that is the case I would suspect the Dc Showcase Death short get yanked because he did art for that.
Nike, Axe, Sony and Hasbro and even if they did stop working with Lee-what are those gators going to do? NOTHING.
Sony is NOT Tom King. Nike is NOT Tom King. Hasbro is NOT Tom King. Or anyone else they hate.
No one is giving PS5 or Jordans or Power Rangers to support those gators.

Agreed.

[Crazy Diamond]

This whole thing leaves me with a warm and fuzzy feeling about the CIA. Evidently, policy there must be, hear something, don't look into it, take it as gospel no matter what the vague source, publish it or otherwise act on unverified intelligence, then lie about it when caught out. Oh yes, and constantly tell everyone you're a spy.

Wow just like how the CIA operates in real life except at least Tom King didn't try to murder Jae Lee and his family in the name of stopping communism or whatever BS justification they come up with.

This whole story reminds me of when Lizzo tried to cancel that woman delivering for DoorDash. She threw her under the bus on Twitter which lead to said woman getting death threats and harassment and almost losing her job until it came out that Lizzo forgot to pick up her order. Real scumbag **** just like what Tom King did.

If Jae Lee doing one cover for EVS is grounds for being cancelled despite not knowing about ComicsGate, shouldn't Tom King be cancelled for his former work for an orgaization that enables the murder of men, women, and children of color worldwide?

[skyvolt2000]

This whole story reminds me of when Lizzo tried to cancel that woman delivering for DoorDash. She threw her under the bus on Twitter which lead to said woman getting death threats and harassment and almost losing her job until it came out that Lizzo forgot to pick up her order. Real scumbag **** just like what Tom King did.

The thing is with crap like that... you got too many ENABLERS and too many who get away with it.

What was the consequence for Lizzo with that? Or did the usual suspects defend it and make excuses like we see with that fandom?
Too many folks get away with it and if YOU take a stance-YOU are wrong.

If Jae Lee doing one cover for EVS is grounds for being cancelled despite not knowing about ComicsGate, shouldn't Tom King be cancelled for his former work for an orgaization that enables the murder of men, women, and children of color worldwide?

The one of MANY comebacks would be -can you prove he did any of that personally. Or he KNEW what he was getting into unlike Lee-who stopped AFTER he learned about it.
However in theory you are correct.

[achilles]

Wow just like how the CIA operates in real life except at least Tom King didn't try to murder Jae Lee and his family in the name of stopping communism or whatever BS justification they come up with.

This whole story reminds me of when Lizzo tried to cancel that woman delivering for DoorDash. She threw her under the bus on Twitter which lead to said woman getting death threats and harassment and almost losing her job until it came out that Lizzo forgot to pick up her order. Real scumbag **** just like what Tom King did.

If Jae Lee doing one cover for EVS is grounds for being cancelled despite not knowing about ComicsGate, shouldn't Tom King be cancelled for his former work for an orgaization that enables the murder of men, women, and children of color worldwide?

Good point; I hadn't thought of that.

[achilles]

The thing is with crap like that... you got too many ENABLERS and too many who get away with it.

What was the consequence for Lizzo with that? Or did the usual suspects defend it and make excuses like we see with that fandom?
Too many folks get away with it and if YOU take a stance-YOU are wrong.




The one of MANY comebacks would be -can you prove he did any of that personally. Or he KNEW what he was getting into unlike Lee-who stopped AFTER he learned about it.
However in theory you are correct.

I can't see how anyone could work for them and not know they do morally and legally dubious things...more than a bit.

[Godlike13]

So thats where you guys are at now, CG isn't as bad as the CIA so who is King to try and stand up against them. Um, ok...

[achilles]

Just trying to be consistent. I mean, if you won't give Lee a pass, can't give King one either. Wouldn't you agree?

[Agent Z]

So thats where you guys are at now, CG isn't as bad as the CIA so who is King to try and stand up against them. Um, ok...

If King actually had stood up to comicsgate instead of causing Lee unwarranted stress, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Steel Inquisitor]

If King actually had stood up to comicsgate instead of causing Lee unwarranted stress, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

He was standing up to Comicsgate, Jae just got caught in the crossfire. We would be having this conversation, King just wouldn't be in it as long s Jae Lee did the commission for EVS, that's what got everything rolling.

I would say its a dangerous game judging an artist. Obviously each of us has or own breaking point but its definitely problematic.

Bob marley and 100s of rasta musicians praised a murderous absolute monarch who willingly let his subjects starve to death. Great music or propaganda for evil?

Salif Keita and the ambassadeurs - superb band or puppets of murdering one party state.

William burroughs - changed the course of fiction or murdering paedophile?

Dave Sim - superb artist and revolutionary storyteller or creep?

Most of us will have and enjoy things by people who we will fundamentally disagree with regarding lifestyle / politics etc. If we only consume things that we vete to ensure they confirm to our own personal morality / ethics then we are either deluded we have "the masterplan" which everything else must adhere to, or we are never going to leave our safe space and challenge ourselves.

Artists are judged in society, always have always will. This is because their careers rely on being public, not being private. There is no "off" switch artists to click, they participate in the world and the world does in turn. Kanye and Taylor Switch don't get full control over how society reacts to them, they can only control their own actions.

Artists will be judged by their personal politics, what groups they belong to, what companies they work for even what clothes they wear.

And this isn't simple a matter of opinion, nobody is angry at EVS because he likes Green lantern more than Batman. Comicsgate is a movement which harasses professionals and fans by gatekeeping comics. CBR itself was attacked by a prototype of this moment years ago, it got so bad the forums were purged and rebooted, the site is shadow of what it used to be because of the toxicity of these people and what's frustrating is they never truly left.

Markey and the Ambassadors are probably more obscure so people don't know, but Burroughs and Sim have had their stocks plummeting in comic literature circles for a long, long time for those very reasons. When Boris Johnson read a racist poem about colonialism nostalgia written by Rudyard Kipling it caused a scandal in 2017.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...myanmar-temple

This is why being problematic is and for artists, they get tarred with it. It makes them radioactive.

This isn't about "challenging" art, this is about standing up to bigotry, hate and misogyny. Do you know who Tess Fowler is? She's a target of Comicsgate, read her tweets.https://twitter.com/TessFowler/

This is why it's important for artists not to get involved with hate groups or be seen as promoting bigotry. Comicsgate is poison for creatives in the comic community and not without good reason.

[batnbreakfast]

Artists are now forced to do research on future employers is the message I take from this. What about DC's continuing employment of bad apples. Might not be as bad as comicsgate but still leaves a taste I dislike. Tom King harming anothers reputation unintentionally is the second message I take from this. He might have thought his actions are sound but sometimes less jumping into action and working on your own shortcomings could be better. Lead by example instead mouthing off

[iron chimp]

He was standing up to Comicsgate, Jae just got caught in the crossfire. We would be having this conversation, King just wouldn't be in it as long s Jae Lee did the commission for EVS, that's what got everything rolling.



Artists are judged in society, always have always will. This is because their careers rely on being public, not being private. There is no "off" switch artists to click, they participate in the world and the world does in turn. Kanye and Taylor Switch don't get full control over how society reacts to them, they can only control their own actions.

Artists will be judged by their personal politics, what groups they belong to, what companies they work for even what clothes they wear.

And this isn't simple a matter of opinion, nobody is angry at EVS because he likes Green lantern more than Batman. Comicsgate is a movement which harasses professionals and fans by gatekeeping comics. CBR itself was attacked by a prototype of this moment years ago, it got so bad the forums were purged and rebooted, the site is shadow of what it used to be because of the toxicity of these people and what's frustrating is they never truly left.

Markey and the Ambassadors are probably more obscure so people don't know, but Burroughs and Sim have had their stocks plummeting in comic literature circles for a long, long time for those very reasons. When Boris Johnson read a racist poem about colonialism nostalgia written by Rudyard Kipling it caused a scandal in 2017.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...myanmar-temple

This is why being problematic is and for artists, they get tarred with it. It makes them radioactive.

This isn't about "challenging" art, this is about standing up to bigotry, hate and misogyny. Do you know who Tess Fowler is? She's a target of Comicsgate, read her tweets.https://twitter.com/TessFowler/

This is why it's important for artists not to get involved with hate groups or be seen as promoting bigotry. Comicsgate is poison for creatives in the comic community and not without good reason.

I know what yr saying and i do agree with you to an extent but where does on stop in a moral / ethical putch of culture. You will end up with nothing left. Dave Sim might be self confessed scumbag but hes easily one of most important creators in north americam comics in the last 40 years.

We are at a point in time where ex CIA are writing the follow up stories to the work of anarchist lsd magician - that in itself is deeply insidious. Whats next ? MI5 writing more V for Vendetta?

Its deeply contradictory state of affairs where very little of any of it makes a lick of sense.

[Crazy Diamond]

I know what yr saying and i do agree with you to an extent but where does on stop in a moral / ethical putch of culture. You will end up with nothing left. Dave Sim might be self confessed scumbag but hes easily one of most important creators in north americam comics in the last 40 years.

We are at a point in time where ex CIA are writing the follow up stories to the work of anarchist lsd magician - that in itself is deeply insidious. Whats next ? MI5 writing more V for Vendetta?

Its deeply contradictory state of affairs where very little of any of it makes a lick of sense.

That's a great point but then again DC wouldn't have Watchmen to begin with if they hadn't found a loophole to keep the rights to that series from reverting back to Moore and Gibbons.

[Crazy Diamond]

He was standing up to Comicsgate, Jae just got caught in the crossfire. We would be having this conversation, King just wouldn't be in it as long s Jae Lee did the commission for EVS, that's what got everything rolling.

If Tom King wanted to stand up to Comicsgate he could've gone after the companies who support them, the creators who promote them, or even just said "Hey, I don't support Comicsgate and here's why". If he was worried about Jae Lee seeing as how they were going to be working together he could've contacted him privately to talk instead of going straight to Twitter.

Artists are judged in society, always have always will. This is because their careers rely on being public, not being private. There is no "off" switch artists to click, they participate in the world and the world does in turn. Kanye and Taylor Switch don't get full control over how society reacts to them, they can only control their own actions.

The thing is the power difference between Jae Lee and Tom King is significant. From what I know, Jae Lee isn't a superstar artist like John Romita Jr. or Jim Lee. Tom King in contrast is one of the top writers at DC Comics. So when he uses his platform to cancel Jae Lee he's taking a guy who's one step above a regular employee and throwing him into the spotlight to say "Look at this man and what he has done!"

Artists will be judged by their personal politics, what groups they belong to, what companies they work for even what clothes they wear.

What does it say about Tom King that he judged Jae Lee to be a supporter of Comicsgate with little evidence?
Or even better, why should Tom King be judging anyone considering he used to work for the CIA?

And this isn't simple a matter of opinion, nobody is angry at EVS because he likes Green lantern more than Batman. Comicsgate is a movement which harasses professionals and fans by gatekeeping comics. CBR itself was attacked by a prototype of this moment years ago, it got so bad the forums were purged and rebooted, the site is shadow of what it used to be because of the toxicity of these people and what's frustrating is they never truly left.

From what I know Comicsgate is like Gamergate and yeah they suck. However what Tom King did reminded me of the kinds of tactics the likes of Mike Cernovich used. Even if that was not the intent the end result was directing harassment and abuse to Jae Lee.

[Pinsir]

Man, its so obvious that people coming after Tom King are just using him as an avatar to attack Cancel Culture broadly.

"Why didn't Tom King contact Jae Lee directly?"

Just because he works in the same company, doesn't mean he has access to the personal information of other DC employees. He's gonna have to go through the company, and perhaps even make an internal complaint, the end result being that Jae Lee would most likely be shadow banned from the industry. Tom King's public admonishment of Jae Lee allowed the man to respond publicly too.

I'm also not sure why people think this is good idea. If you suspected a work colleague of yours was a white supremacist, would you contact this person and have a chat with them? Also I'm just going to say, DC probably should not dole out personal information on a whim, like, seriously, this practice would lead to abuse immediately. It would be an extermination event for women in the industry.

"Tom King worked for the CIA!"

Jesus Christ, this is so irrelevant. I'm sorry Tom King hasn't denounced 20 years of his life and all the personal relationships he developed there or whatever, but even then people can do bad things and that doesn't make everything they do bad.

"Tom King shouldn't have judged Jae Lee so harshly!"

Jae Lee never publicly distanced himself from his CG work. Tom King was acting in good faith on the only information available to the public in a manner that, in my opinion, led to the best outcome.

"Why didn't Tom King denounce his company, major multi-national corporations and capitalism itself?"

Because he wants to continue to work.