Rorschach Maxiseries announced: Tom King and Jorge Fornes.

[Steel Inquisitor]

And how is blaming Lee for this fiasco and getting him labeled a Comicsgate supporter going to do that? This is the exact type of incident they can use to make their opposition look the bad guys in the future.

It's not, that's just the position Comicsgate put him in. That won't go away by pretending nothing bad happened. I'm sure they'll use it to convert Jae Lee. Which is why people should do research before doing covers for clients to avoid these sort of situations from occurring.

[Psy-lock]

I'm not at all surprised by this. In every comic book from King that I've read, his characters always sound very inhuman, like artificial life forms trying to imitate human behavior. Apparently he was just projecting his own character.

As for those who still defend his disgusting behavior...are you guys forgetting that you're financially supporting/supported DC, a company with history of sexual harassment and generally shitty treatment of their employees? I guess you should cancel yourselves to be consistent with your worldview.

[Steel Inquisitor]

As for those who still defend his disgusting behavior...are you guess forgetting that you're financially supporting/supported DC, a company with history of sexual harassment and generally shitty treatment of their employees? I guess you should cancel yourselves to be consistent with your worldview.

This ignores the fact that we think how he did it was wrong, including how he's made his "apologies" which are tone deaf at best.

DC does have that history, it's had huge problems with protecting sexual predators and dismissing marginalised voices, which needs to be badly reformed. And even they think Comicsgate is too toxic for them, that's why talent like EVS and Chuck Dixon don't work for them any longer. The group in question does the exact same thing you're blaming DC for but that group is eerily missing from being complained about on this subject in this post. That's the missing forth group in this situation, it's not simply King, Jae Lee and DC Comics - without that group Jae Lee doing a variant cover for King's Watchmen becomes regular news not a scandal.

[Psy-lock]

This ignores the fact that we think how he did it was wrong, including how he's made his "apologies" which are tone deaf at best.

DC does have that history, it's had huge problems with protecting sexual predators and dismissing marginalised voices, which needs to be badly reformed. And even they think Comicsgate is too toxic for them, that's why talent like EVS and Chuck Dixon don't work for them any longer. The group in question does the exact same thing you're blaming DC for but that group is eerily missing from being complained about on this subject in this post. That's the missing forth group in this situation, it's not simply King, Jae Lee and DC Comics - without that group Jae Lee doing a variant cover for King's Watchmen becomes regular news not a scandal.

lol, "my problematic fave is better than yours" basically.

[HsssH]

Didn't Dixon have short stories in recent Batman family 80th Anniversary issues?

[Agent Z]

This ignores the fact that we think how he did it was wrong, including how he's made his "apologies" which are tone deaf at best.

DC does have that history, it's had huge problems with protecting sexual predators and dismissing marginalised voices, which needs to be badly reformed. And even they think Comicsgate is too toxic for them, that's why talent like EVS and Chuck Dixon don't work for them any longer. The group in question does the exact same thing you're blaming DC for but that group is eerily missing from being complained about on this subject in this post. That's the missing forth group in this situation, it's not simply King, Jae Lee and DC Comics - without that group Jae Lee doing a variant cover for King's Watchmen becomes regular news not a scandal.

You've barely called out Comicsgate yourself for this mess. You've spent more time criticizing Lee for either not knowing about Comicsgate or criticizing him for not condemning them in the post where castigated King for his irresponsible and insensitive behavior.

[Steel Inquisitor]

You've barely called out Comicsgate yourself for this mess. You've spent more time criticizing Lee for either not knowing about Comicsgate or criticizing him for not condemning them in the post where castigated King for his irresponsible and insensitive behavior.

Sure I have, I've called them a hate group multiple times and explained in detail why it was bad for anyone to associate with them. Many people evade them and EVS as though they weren't in this, King has made massive mistakes with his judgement in this but he didn't force Jae to make a cover for EVS. Comicsgate didn't get a hashtag on EVS' tweet by accident. Shouldn't people condemn hate groups? I've criticised King for what he did.

Edit: When have you called out Comicsgate?

[Agent Z]

Sure I have, I've called them a hate group multiple times and explained in detail why it was bad for anyone to associate with them. Many people evade them and EVS as though they weren't in this, King has made massive mistakes with his judgement in this but he didn't force Jae to make a cover for EVS. Comicsgate didn't get a hashtag on EVS' tweet by accident. Shouldn't people condemn hate groups? I've criticised King for what he did.

Edit: When have you called out Comicsgate?

I've condemned comicgate when it was appropriate and relevant to the conversation. But that's not quite what this is about. This is about King jumping the gun. It's about people victim blaming Lee for his very justified reaction and refusal to be involved in any mess with Comicsgate (something he'd already made a point to do after he learned what they were and which King would have known about if he'd done his research). This is about people getting indignant at Lee for his reaction to his social life taking a hit based on false assumptions.

King falsely accused Lee of being a Comicsgate supporter and he turned out to be wrong. He could have apologized to Lee and left it that. Instead, he lied about him and Lee having settled the issue while Lee was facing the possible end of his career. Then we had people victim blaming Lee for his own smearing while the guy was dealing with a personal tragedy. Even after King has admitted that he was in the wrong and this is all on him we still have people taking Lee to task for something that was not his fault.

Again, comicsgate deserves to be opposed. The people who want nothing to do with this mess should be left alone. Lee is not supporting comicsgate and that is more than enough to be expected of him.

[achilles]

Didn't Dixon have short stories in recent Batman family 80th Anniversary issues?

I think I missed something, does Chuck Dixon have anything to do with this?

[HsssH]

I think I missed something, does Chuck Dixon have anything to do with this?

If I'm not mistaken he is working with some CG related people.

[Jody Garland]

If I'm not mistaken he is working with some CG related people.

Dixon has worked with Vox Day, a controversial figure associated with CG.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I've condemned comicgate when it was appropriate and relevant to the conversation.

Please, link me to those posts.

But that's not quite what this is about. This is about King jumping the gun. It's about people victim blaming Lee for his very justified reaction and refusal to be involved in any mess with Comicsgate (something he'd already made a point to do after he learned what they were and which King would have known about if he'd done his research).

Once more erasing the actions of EVS in this mess, it's not like King just did this on a whim it was reaction to what EVS posted. He was wrong to do this, so why shouldn't EVS bare some responsibility for this chain of events? Except he is involved, EVS bought him into it. We don't know what Jae's feeling are about Comicsgate with any real depth, he shut down the conversation. I'm sure many people would like to know but I'm not optimistic we ever will get answers. Both parties should have definitely done more research before acting.

This is about people getting indignant at Lee for his reaction to his social life taking a hit based on false assumptions.

This is about about people afraid that this is going to destroy Jae's professional life and his social life, PR is vital in situations like this. And it wasn't just King endangering this, it was EVS.

King falsely accused Lee of being a Comicsgate supporter and he turned out to be wrong. He could have apologized to Lee and left it that. Instead, he lied about him and Lee having settled the issue while Lee was facing the possible end of his career. Then we had people victim blaming Lee for his own smearing while the guy was dealing with a personal tragedy. Even after King has admitted that he was in the wrong and this is all on him we still have people taking Lee to task for something that was not his fault.

Yeah, but he was right about Jae doing covers for EVS and EVS linked tweets of that cover to Comicsgate with a hashtag. Jae's getting criticism because of accepting work from people linked to a hate group, that shouldn't have been impossible to find out all was required was five minutes of Google. Or talking to people in the industry who knew about or worked with EVS. Do you think comic artists should accept work from Comicsgate professionals for money?

Again, comicsgate deserves to be opposed. The people who want nothing to do with this mess should be left alone. Lee is not supporting comicsgate and that is more than enough to be expected of him.

If this was just Jae I'd disagree but be understand it since he is an individual, however, this argument suggests that what Jae is doing should be done by more people rather than less. Doing nothing is not enough when a hate group is manipulating freelancers into doing covers for them to trick people into thinking they're members? I don't agree.

[Agent Z]

Please, link me to those posts.

I meant in conversations other than this.

We don't know what Jae's feeling are about Comicsgate with any real depth, he shut down the conversation. I'm sure many people would like to know but I'm not optimistic we ever will get answers. Both parties should have definitely done more research before acting.

Lee had been harassed on the day he was mourning a pet. He shut down the conversation because he was not in the mood to have it and should not be expected to have such a conversation. He has made it clear he does not support comicsgate.

This is about about people afraid that this is going to destroy Jae's professional life and his social life, PR is vital in situations like this.

If anyone is still going to believe Lee is a comicsgate supporter after this, that says more about them than him.

Yeah, but he was right about Jae doing covers for EVS and EVS linked tweets of that cover to Comicsgate with a hashtag. Jae's getting criticism because of accepting work from people linked to a hate group, that shouldn't have been impossible to find out all was required was five minutes of Google. Or talking to people in the industry who knew about or worked with EVS.

He'd worked with Van Sciver a grand total of once prior to this in the same capacity of doing a variant cover. If he hadn't heard anything bad about Van Sciver before he did the new variant, why would he have needed to search on him? Especially when he's largely absent from social media where the majority of the comicsgate drama occurs? As despicable as they are, comicsgate are not that widespread. Most of what they do is online and only 22% of Americans use Twitter.

If this was just Jae I'd disagree but be understand it since he is an individual, however, this argument suggests that what Jae is doing should be done by more people rather than less. Doing nothing is not enough when a hate group is manipulating freelancers into doing covers for them to trick people into thinking they're members? I don't agree.

Again, if you want to call out comicsgate just do that and leave Lee out of it.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I meant in conversations other than this.

This incident nearly destroyed a man's career simply by being associated with Comicsgate, it was the perfect opportunity to condemn them for it.

Lee had been harassed on the day he was mourning a pet. He shut down the conversation because he was not in the mood to have it and should not be expected to have such a conversation. He has made it clear he does not support comicsgate.

True, which is horrible. Which is ok, except it was about shutting down all conversation about the subject - there will be no conversation with Jae Lee about Comicsgate over this. He wants no part of it. He didn't have do this now, he's in mourning but the door was shut completely. He said he would not talk about Comicsgate, he said nothing about his feelings about it or EVS. Neither subject were named in the statement.

If anyone is still going to believe Lee is a comicsgate supporter after this, that says more about them than him.

It's not that simple.

He'd worked with Van Sciver a grand total of once prior to this in the same capacity of doing a variant cover. If he hadn't heard anything bad about Van Sciver before he did the new variant, why would he have needed to search on him? Especially when he's largely absent from social media where the majority of the comicsgate drama occurs? As despicable as they are, comicsgate are not that widespread. Most of what they do is online and only 22% of Americans use Twitter.

How long has it been since they worked together? As a freelancer he, and other artists, are doing work for other companies and people they want to be associated with, that's why it's good for both the freelancer and the company/person making the commission. In any industry there's more politics going on than simply the production of a comic book, since companies and people are inherently political. Drawing a controversial pose can be scandalous, see the Milo Manara Spider-Woman controversy - Milo became radioactive from that scandal so his relationship with Marvel was severed. Comics is filled with comic creators with varying scandals and social capital, as well as companies themselves. See Dynamite. Context changed with EVS, and this put Jae's career in unnecessary jeopardy. Which made this sort of thing inevitable, how was Jae supposed to know how dangerous it was for his career to associate with EVS? Not doing so cost him, and by shutting down this conversation it made him working for someone in EVS circles easier. Comicsgate has made headline news, is discussed on comic sites and among professionals. Sure, some people have missed it but it's not a small thing, either. The internet is not just social media. Comicgate could be 2 comic professionals and a dozen fanboys - it'd still worthy of being fought. It's much, much later than that. You Tube is filled with their channels, its a cottage industry unto itself. Being online is a great tool for them to recruit and harass people, fans and professionals alike. The thing with the internet is that it's worldwide, this isn't just about America.

Again, if you want to call out comicsgate just do that and leave Lee out of it.

That wasn't your original argument, it was that more people need to do what Jae's doing. Jae is simply one person, he's chosen what he wants to do but this is just one battle in a culture war and Comicsgate think they won in this encounter. They're exploiting this incident right now for their own agenda, as intended.

You didn't answer my question, I'll ask again.

Do you think comic artists should accept work from Comicsgate professionals for money?

[skyvolt2000]

Do you think comic artists should accept work from Comicsgate professionals for money?

That is a choice that the artist has to make.

If they choose to NOT research or ignore all the evidence a simple search in Twitter alone would do. That is on them and they choose to accept those consequences.

This incident nearly destroyed a man's career simply by being associated with Comicsgate, it was the perfect opportunity to condemn them for it.

We don't know that because comics is a SMALL thing.

Look at his client list-most of them don't know who the gators are.
Amandla Stenberg is she suppose to know who they are? I am sure they attacked her since she was Rue in the Hunger Games. Yet Lee is doing variants for her book.
DC? Because if that is the case I would suspect the Dc Showcase Death short get yanked because he did art for that.
Nike, Axe, Sony and Hasbro and even if they did stop working with Lee-what are those gators going to do? NOTHING.
Sony is NOT Tom King. Nike is NOT Tom King. Hasbro is NOT Tom King. Or anyone else they hate.
No one is giving PS5 or Jordans or Power Rangers to support those gators.