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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Actually I'd very much like to see more of the Oddfellows in the comics too. We had a couple appearances after the movie (I don't even recall if Chief was there) and that was it. Real shame, because I thought they were an excellent addition.
    I think Robinson used them a bit. However, in the Steve Trevor oneshot by Seeley I think they lost all the personality and the depth that made them interesting from the movie. They were just generic military badasses with hats.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #62
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think Robinson used them a bit. However, in the Steve Trevor oneshot by Seeley I think they lost all the personality and the depth that made them interesting from the movie. They were just generic military badasses with hats.
    Pretty sure if was Robinson, yeah. And if Seeley or whoever dropped the ball, that's not a reason to put the Oddfellows on the shelf or anything, just write them better next time.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Pretty sure if was Robinson, yeah. And if Seeley or whoever dropped the ball, that's not a reason to put the Oddfellows on the shelf or anything, just write them better next time.
    I think it was part of the issue here. It's not only a question of writing the character, it's about the context they are placed in. They are very much reluctant soldiers, who find themselves in a situation where they need to be heroes. But the key isn't that they are badasses or heroes, or even that they become such over the course of the movie, but that they both teach Diana and become better persons through her association with her.

    The world situation, and the way war is waged, is very much different. The Oddfellows could certainly work in the Second World War, but it'd be tricky to get them together for later wars and keep their core dynamics intact.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #64
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    And I think that's why they weren't as good in the comics; you can't just transplant them from the film to the page because the context is so different. But I think they could be adapted and work out fairly well, it'd just require a little work to find a suitable niche for them to fill and a solid dynamic that fits the page rather than the screen.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One thing that helps is the fact Steve is interesting. Especially with the argus background. With that said he really does need a little gallery of his own so to speak. Like What Wonder Woman villain would want Steve dead because Steve could get them?

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Is it Diana, who needs the rival ..for Steve's affection? What would that be like, ..Steve with another strong, capable woman, who is an associate of Diana's? Would she be an ARGUS agent? Astra, Girl from the Future? Another Amazon? A nobody, from nowhere? Who could conceivably get between Diana and Steve, and make it interesting?

    I'm just not excited about Steve and Diana, right now.
    That could be interesting but more in the short term. Long term love triangles are hard to maintain and emphatize, same with unrequited love.

  7. #67
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    One thing that helps is the fact Steve is interesting. Especially with the argus background. With that said he really does need a little gallery of his own so to speak. Like What Wonder Woman villain would want Steve dead because Steve could get them?
    Mouse Man.

    Okay, stop laughing and hear me out. OG Mouse Man is a master thief and member of an organized villain group and he injured Steve in a car accident, all way back in the day. He's a scientist who invented shrinking tech and can control rodents (that might be tech, or maybe a super power, we don't know).

    Updating that gives you a dude who is nearly impossible to catch; all of Diana's powers and all of Steve's military equipment are essentially useless in the search. Mouse Man's powers make him well positioned to be a corporate spy, saboteur, and political assassin and all that works really well as a foil for Steve. Mouse Man's connections to organized villain society also puts him in Argus' crosshairs, and the fact that he nearly killed Steve in a car accident makes it personal.

    Mouse Man isn't a villain people are going to take seriously as a Wonder Woman foe, but he can provide a legit challenge for Steve. This isn't a villain anybody has really used in forever and is basically a blank slate (I dont think he's even been given a real name) so a writer has a lot of freedom. Mouse Man has abilities other Wonder rogues don't so he stands out. You can also draw some real obvious differences between Steve and Mouse Man; make Mouse Man a incel and you've got plenty of conflict with both Diana and Steve and a lot of meta-commentary that pretty much writes itself.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    One thing that helps is the fact Steve is interesting. Especially with the argus background. With that said he really does need a little gallery of his own so to speak. Like What Wonder Woman villain would want Steve dead because Steve could get them?
    I don’t know that he needs a rogues gallery all his own, but has his own relationships with villains in addition to Diana’s relationships with her villains. That’s one way to enrich the overall Wonder mythos.

    I mean...

    What does Ares think of Steve and his brand of soldiering?
    Does Barbara Minerva give any thought to Steve? (And if she doesn’t, maybe that’s the point.)
    How has Doctor Cyber planned for interference from Steve?

    In the Steve Trevor one shot, I liked Saturna and the Crimson Men as an addition to the Wonderverse and as opposition to Steve directly... but we haven’t had anything else interesting come of it. I can also see some dramaz between my preferred versions of:

    Steve and Doctor Cyber
    Steve and Eris
    Steve and Doctor Psycho
    Steve and the Duke of Deception

    Everything I’ve commented on about Steve, I’d also apply to Etta.

    Etta and Inversion
    Etta and Eros
    Etta and Giganta
    Etta and Captain Wonder

    The World of Wonder just needs to make some leaps and bounds ahead in creating a richer world of interactions and intrigues between its three main characters (Diana, Steve, and Etta) and the Wonder villains and supporting characters.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I think that Mouse Man would be an opportunity for Diana's animal communication skills to shine.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  10. #70
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    One thing that helps is the fact Steve is interesting. Especially with the argus background. With that said he really does need a little gallery of his own so to speak. Like What Wonder Woman villain would want Steve dead because Steve could get them?
    Kung would be someone on his level.

    Martial artist who can turn into a tiger seems a more credible threat to Steve than to Wonder Woman herself.

  11. #71
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think that Mouse Man would be an opportunity for Diana's animal communication skills to shine.
    Sure would be. And you can get some really fun scenes out of it too; Diana in all her six foot tall glory, locked in furious mental battle with a dude who is two inches tall, trying to take control of a mouse army before they eat Steve alive. Or Diana doing a riff on the old pulp "detective walks around the seedy parts of town asking questions" troupe....but she's talking to mice. I think Mouse Man would not only make a great foil for Steve, but would provide opportunities for Diana (and Steve as well) to kind of laugh at the ridiculous situations they find themselves in. I mean, your life has to be pretty crazy when you're dealing with mouse spies trying to steal nuclear codes and stuff right? But at the same time, Mouse Man can be taken as a serious (if unconventional) threat.
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-26-2020 at 07:13 AM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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