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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think looking to A-list writers—as those that are in regular rotation on high-profile comics titles—to do something impactful and interesting with Diana is a fool's errand. They are too stuck in the established mainstream of comics. Look at how Grant Morrison treated her when he got Earth One.

    I think G Willow Wilson had interesting stuff to say about Diana, but she was hobbled by events, prior continuity, a chaotic art situation, and introduced a story with poor pacing.
    To be fair, I do agree a lot of recent writers were hobbled down by continuity and editorial mandates. James Robinson was forced to work with WW's brother and darkseights daughter. Wilson randomly broke up steve trevor. Orlando was always a filler run.

    I'm also gonna take a guess that the new writer was told she had to use Max Lord because of the movie.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Oh, I think I've seen some posters here put up the same sentiment, but I'm fairly sure I'm the main proponent.



    I'm not sure I agree. World War Two got a lot of lionisation of stuff like the commandos. Also, the pilots were as close to knights—noble warriors as individuals—as modern militaries could get. It was perhaps most prevalent in the First World War, but still remained in the Second World War. But nothing of that can be found with special operations soldiers.



    On the other hand, superhero comics are lousy with military, ex-military, and cops, and the closest thing we have had to questioning those institutions in superhero comics is (AFAICT) with Batwoman, and that was strictly a DADT issue. I think that any real handling of Steve's relation to the military needs a real firm conclusion in the story arc for any criticism of the military to feel worthwhile. Otherwise it's just a return to the status quo and another episode of the week.

    If Diana's forte among DC's superheroes is the one to stop wars, then I don't really see a need for her to be connected to the military anyway. Diplomacy and politics will be more important.
    Superhero media is rife with stories about corrupt and ineffective police and military.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Getting late here, but there is another thing before I get to respond to individual posts. Wonder Woman is fundamentally about change, and on a societal level. She represents that our society does not necessarily needs to be organised like it is right now.

    But how much do we see in her comics in practice? Nothing. And I can understand that, because doing that kind of world-building is both really hard to do, and would be very provocative. But I see two different ways to introduce that theme. The first is to use Themyscira as an alternative to our world: a better and more moral example. We need not necessarily see more of it than we do right now, but the way it is depicted by DC should be changed. The other is that Diana fundamentally brings change to the people around her. And I can think of no better spot to start than with Steve.

    The more I think back, the more I realise that Patty Jenkins grokked not only Diana, but also Steve on a fundamental level that DC has no hope of matching.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #49
    Spectacular Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    One issue WW has always had is its consistincy. Superman you will always have Lois/Daily Planet characters. batman will always have Dick/Selena/etc.. WW, she has Themiscrya but they arent her regular supporting cast. Steve should be a consistent supporting cast member.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I wonder. Mala and Nubia should they be part of her supporting cast?

  6. #51

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    I like the idea of steve being a relationship she had in the past and she just moved on.

    Due to the movies, a weakness of Diana's could now be a strength. She spents 100+ years in Man's world so just have her rotate her supporting cast/setting.

  7. #52
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Due to the movies, a weakness of Diana's could now be a strength. She spents 100+ years in Man's world so just have her rotate her supporting cast/setting.
    It seems like a DC thing to do, doesn't it? Say "Yeah, your favorite supporting cast, that totally happened and those people were definitely in Diana's life.....decades ago, and now they're all dead, here's a brand new bunch of supporting cast members!" Very much trying to have their cake and eat it too.

    I think there could be potential in that idea, but I'd want to see it play out. I'd want to see Etta celebrate her 100th birthday with Diana, see what's became of I-Ching (other than a name change) since the 70's, stuff like that. If DC did that, then it could actually be pretty cool and put all those supporting cast members we've cycled through to good use.
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-22-2020 at 06:17 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    It seems like a DC thing to do, doesn't it? Say "Yeah, your favorite supporting cast, that totally happened and those people were definitely in Diana's life.....decades ago, and now they're all dead, here's a brand new bunch of supporting cast members!" Very much trying to have their cake and eat it too.

    I think there could be potential in that idea, but I'd want to see it play out. I'd want to see Etta celebrate her 100th birthday with Diana, see what's became of I-Ching (other than a name change) since the 70's, stuff like that. If DC did that, then it could actually be pretty cool and put all those supporting cast members we've cycled through to good use.
    It's more inspired by Doctor who- different companions for different eras. I don't often like the ideas for multiple solos as they feel wasteful and I rather have more characters get a shot. But WW in different eras of 20th century history is a good hook for multiple solos.

  9. #54
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    It's more inspired by Doctor who- different companions for different eras. I don't often like the ideas for multiple solos as they feel wasteful and I rather have more characters get a shot. But WW in different eras of 20th century history is a good hook for multiple solos.
    Except for the part where Doctor Who rotates their companions on purpose and DC just doesn't have any follow-through.

    I gotta admit, when 5G was a thing and they said Diana would be a Golden Age hero, the idea of having a Sensation title set in the 40's and a Wonder Woman title set in the present day had a whole lot of appeal for me. I think there's a ton of potential there.....if DC could actually sketch out a timeline and stick to their continuity.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  10. #55
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Except for the part where Doctor Who rotates their companions on purpose and DC just doesn't have any follow-through.

    I gotta admit, when 5G was a thing and they said Diana would be a Golden Age hero, the idea of having a Sensation title set in the 40's and a Wonder Woman title set in the present day had a whole lot of appeal for me. I think there's a ton of potential there.....if DC could actually sketch out a timeline and stick to their continuity.
    Thought it had potential too, would have been cool if they got a previous writer who has real encyclopedic knowledge of the character to map it out. Though there was also the thought that this was just synergy with the movie and the usual DC lip service when it comes to WW rather than anything really substantial.

  11. #56
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    If I had to guess? The plan was to do a JSA book set in the past with Diana as the tent pole character. Her solo would've been set in the present day and she'd also be appearing in JLA and JLDark (if that was still gonna exist in 5G).

    I like to think that DC would've brought Sensation back for 5G but I dunno if they really would have. They had that digital first series a while back and I think they were testing the waters maybe....but nothing ever came of it. And they haven't really tried to capitalize on the movie or push Diana in any real way, so.....I wouldn't have bet on Sensation's return, though it would've been nice.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #57
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Is it Diana, who needs the rival ..for Steve's affection? What would that be like, ..Steve with another strong, capable woman, who is an associate of Diana's? Would she be an ARGUS agent? Astra, Girl from the Future? Another Amazon? A nobody, from nowhere? Who could conceivably get between Diana and Steve, and make it interesting?

    I'm just not excited about Steve and Diana, right now.
    Look alive, Kangaliers!

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think there could be potential in that idea, but I'd want to see it play out. I'd want to see Etta celebrate her 100th birthday with Diana, see what's became of I-Ching (other than a name change) since the 70's, stuff like that. If DC did that, then it could actually be pretty cool and put all those supporting cast members we've cycled through to good use.
    I really, really, really wish that Napi (AKA Chief) makes an appearance in Wonder Woman 1984. He doesn't need a big role, but I do think he should appear.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Is it Diana, who needs the rival ..for Steve's affection?
    No. A love triangle is what writers do when they can't come up with actual smart ideas for a relationship. Steve and Diana do not need a love triangle.

  15. #60
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I really, really, really wish that Napi (AKA Chief) makes an appearance in Wonder Woman 1984. He doesn't need a big role, but I do think he should appear.
    Hell yes to that. I'd like to see that he and Diana have become close friends over the years and see them sitting in a bar having a drink in memory of the friends they've lost. Gotta be hard being an immortal, yknow?

    Actually I'd very much like to see more of the Oddfellows in the comics too. We had a couple appearances after the movie (I don't even recall if Chief was there) and that was it. Real shame, because I thought they were an excellent addition.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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