Rank in Reaction Speed II

[Cronus]

The Runner is the “gold standard” here. Given his top stuff, how do the following speedsters rank and/or compare to him and each other?


• Barry Allan (silver age)

• Wally West (post Crisis, pre Flashpoint)

• Eobard Thawne (new 52 through Rebirth)

• Black Racer (post crisis feats or new 52 acceptable)


Bonus: Superman Blue

Bonus, bonus! - Bart Allan (Impulse through Fastest Man Alive)

[Pendaran]

the Runner is so fast that someone who benchmarks around Wally in speed could only "guh" at how fast the Runner is.

So... Silver Age Barry/Runner tie-ish at the top, then Wally West, then Thawne, and I have no idea where to put the Racer really.

[Beadle]

Yeah, what he said.

With the bonuses, I’d put Bart at the bottom of the current list and then Superman Blue below that.

And I still wouldn’t know what to do with Black Racer. Except burn that costume.

[Superfan90]

the Runner is so fast that someone who benchmarks around Wally in speed could only "guh" at how fast the Runner is.

So... Silver Age Barry/Runner tie-ish at the top, then Wally West, then Thawne, and I have no idea where to put the Racer really.

Wasn't Runner unable to escape a black hole in the same run by Steve Englehart? His speed is all over the place. For what it's worth Champion said that Surfer was weakened when he fought Runner.

[Beadle]

The story in question was in Gruenwald’s Quasar run, not Englehart’s Surfer.

And Runner was operating at stupid speeds as well. But IIIRC, once he realised he was getting embarrassed by Makkari, he then, like Makkari, used the Whatever Speed thing and couldn’t control it either. So the *cough* ‘Buried Alien’ (Barry Allen) won the race.

[Superfan90]

The story in question was in Gruenwald’s Quasar run, not Englehart’s Surfer.

And Runner was operating at stupid speeds as well. But IIIRC, once he realised he was getting embarrassed by Makkari, he then, like Makkari, used the Whatever Speed thing and couldn’t control it either. So the *cough* ‘Buried Alien’ (Barry Allen) won the race.

No, I'm talking about when he fought Surfer which Pendaran is talking about. Runner has very few appearances in which he sometimes blitzes Surfer, gets tripped over by Mantis, runs across galaxy, can't run at the speed of light, can't escape a black hole etc. His speed is all over the place.

[Pendaran]

Wasn't Runner unable to escape a black hole in the same run by Steve Englehart? His speed is all over the place. For what it's worth Champion said that Surfer was weakened when he fought Runner.

Given the nature of the defeat the Surfer inflicted on Champion and the outright big ol "everything back to normal" end warp of the Grandmaster thing where Korvac showed up, that largely came off as Champion trying to save face. Given Champion's overall.. how to put it.. personality ever since his first appearance, it definitely comes off as Champion trying to save face.

No, I'm talking about when he fought Surfer which Pendaran is talking about. Runner has very few appearances in which he sometimes blitzes Surfer, gets tripped over by Mantis, runs across galaxy, can't run at the speed of light, can't escape a black hole etc. His speed is all over the place.

The thing of the Runner barely existing is that things like Mantis tripping him and the black hole thing thus get lot less weight to a guy whose presentation and high end feats otherwise go up there.

(also the time he couldn't go lightspeed makes no sense considering the sheer astronomical distances everyone was going in that race, but that's something else). That he can otherwise as it happens do the ultimate speed thing Makkari can do or can at least move to interact with him in that mode, that he can blitz the Surfer, that he can cross galactic distance while straight up running, honestly that's all fine. The whole idea of him is stupid fast, and he backs it up enough to his fractional blip of an existence.

[Cody]

the Runner is so fast that someone who benchmarks around Wally in speed could only "guh" at how fast the Runner is.

So... Silver Age Barry/Runner tie-ish at the top, then Wally West, then Thawne, and I have no idea where to put the Racer really.

Is Surfer really even in the same league as Wally? His best feats don't exactly come even remotely close to outrunning the big bang.

[Pendaran]

Is Surfer really even in the same league as Wally? His best feats don't exactly come even remotely close to outrunning the big bang.

Are you talking about Flash 141? If so, that's a generous reading of what happened.

He didn't outrun the big bang. If anything we see the light of it enveloping him to the point that the only shadow is cast by the part of him that blocks it out.

Which, hey, crazy durability feat!

Or, alternatively, Wally is in a really weird situation that is letting him outright witness the form of molecular building blocks of creation forming. He's actually running within the event at the end of the universe that starts the next one as he travels through time. He's immersed within it to the point that we see him running around giant chains of forming molecules.

Is there somewhere else that says Wally outran the big bang?

Because whatever was happening there, he didn't outrun anything. He was within it and then moved out of it, which we outright see.

[Pendaran]

He didn't outrun it, we see it actually happening around him and weaving through it

https://imgur.com/a/ONlunbO

So either Wally as it turns out is insanely durable, or that event was not especially damaging. Whichever you prefer.

Unless you're talking about something else or Wally later afterwards says he outran the big bang?

That's him, running through the creation event. If he outran it, he wouldn't be within it.

[Pendaran]

More to the point, people tend to misread this issue, another thing I'll hear is "Wally ran across the universe to its end!"

And no, what he's doing is running through time, travelling through it as he runs. "The Big Bang that starts the next universe" isn't something he outruns, it's an era of time he moves through.

Unless there's something else?

[Cronus]

Is Surfer really even in the same league as Wally? His best feats don't exactly come even remotely close to outrunning the big bang.

Not sure how outrunning the big bang is a reaction feat? Or are you just talking straight line speed?

[Cronus]

As far as reaction feats for Surfer, grabbing Nova at the Skrull strong hold right as signals caused an explosion was talked about. The gauntlet grab was an indicator of massively FTL reaction speed. Also, Surfer searching an entire planet before Dr Strange finishes his second sentence, pretty FTL.

[daBronzeBomma]

PC Superman has entered the arena.

How does his resume look as far as reaction feats go compared to these others?