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  1. #151
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was very glad to see the end of the Clarks.
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  2. #152
    Incredible Member Midnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    Yes, I noticed we never saw her body and considered they may bring her back, but killing Nick, in my opinion was definitely a mistake. I'm sure the writers had their reasons, contractual disputes, etc, but if they needed to trim the cast there were other people with less talent who could've been dropped.
    The actor who played him wanted off of the show. There was nothing they could do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I disagree. I think both Madison and Nicks stories were pretty much done. I mean Madison's whole thing had become "I'll do anything to save my kids no matter who I have to hurt in the process" which she did over and over again and Nick's was "I am always going to be a **** up no matter what so my mom will keep having to do horrible things to help me". I do think Nick could have gotten a better death, but I was fine with him dying. Same with Madision.
    Feel the same here. I think the new characters have been a much needed breath of fresh air.
    Last edited by Midnighter; 08-14-2020 at 02:16 PM.

  3. #153
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Travis's death was sort of a bit awkward. However season 3 is what many considered to be the show's height, where the groups settle with a prepper community but one that's involved in a nasty land dispute with a local tribe (Plus the Prepper leaders family is quite messed up), while Daniel and Strand do their double-act at a Mexican dam. Not sure how it would've went with Travis still around.
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  4. #154
    Sailing the seas Chris Lang's Avatar
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    Ah, lots of good picks here.

    Now, a number of people think that the Death Note manga/anime made a mistake in killing off L (the smartest opponent of the anti-hero protagonist Light Yagami) two thirds of the way through, and I can see why. A lot of the fun came from the battle of wits between Light and L. Seeing the bizarre and sometimes ethically questionable tactics L would use in investigating Light as a suspect in the Kira murders, and Light's clever ways of throwing him off and covering up his true actions made for a lot of amazing moments (including making an announcement that he's eating a potato chip sound epic - it makes sense in context). Of course, the battle couldn't last forever, and at a certain point it made perfect sense for L to die.

    The problem was, the writer of the manga/anime was more or less making up the story as he went along. He got to a point where L's death made the most sense, and it would be hard to continue without L dying -- but the problem was, where does the story go from there? What does Light do once the biggest obstacle in his path to being 'the god of a new world' is out of the way? True, there were still members of the 'Kira Task Force' left, but as capable and well-meaning as they were, none of them were anywhere near as brilliant a detective as L.

    The writer's solution to the corner he'd written himself into was to introduce Near and Mello, two rivals for L's successor, to be Light's new opponents. Near, as it turned out, was the closest to being a worthy successor to L, but he was still introduced too late in the series, and didn't quite have the same presence as L did.

    Personally, I think the manga/anime lost something great when Light's father, Soichiro Yagami, died. He was the moral conscience of the show, with a strong sense of right and wrong. He would always be one of the first to voice objections to L's more ethically questionable tactics, and made it clear that no matter how justified the mysterious 'Kira' believes his actions to be, murder is still wrong. One definitely feels bad for him when his son comes under suspicion for being the killer, especially when we know that those suspicions are correct. When Soichiro dies, the show certainly loses something in its last few episodes.

    Various adaptations seem to work to correct these problems. The 2015 Japanese live action drama series introduces Near (and Mello, sort of) early on in the show. This way, he doesn't come out of nowhere and his status as L's possible successor is established before L comes even close to dying.

    The live-action Japanese movie adaptation keeps both L and Soichiro alive until the end (though in L's case, he's living on borrowed time due to a trick he pulled with a Death Note to delay the time of his death).

    The Death Note musical has L die right in front of Light, but Ryuk state that if Light just goes back to what he was doing before L came along (write a name of some bad person in the Death Note, wait for a death, write another name, wait for a death, write, wait, write, wait, and so on) then things would be just as boring as they were back in the Shinigami realm before all this started, so he writes Light's name in the Death Note at that point to bring things to an end there.

    (I haven't seen the 2017 Netflix series so I don't know how that series ends. All I know is that it's the least popular Death Note adaptation).

    But yes, the original problem with L's death was of course that the writer was making things up as he went along, and not really sure just where the story would go and how it would end. My guess is a lot of the other character deaths in this thread are this way - some, like L's death, make sense within the story but still present problems for the show going forward.
    Last edited by Chris Lang; 08-16-2020 at 03:08 PM.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    Lol. This whole thread is just one great big spoiler.
    Yeah, there's no denying that for sure. But you take that risk any time you open a thread on any blog these days.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lang View Post
    Ah, lots of good picks here.

    Now, a number of people think that the Death Note manga/anime made a mistake in killing off L (the smartest opponent of the anti-hero protagonist Light Yagami) two thirds of the way through, and I can see why. A lot of the fun came from the battle of wits between Light and L. Seeing the bizarre and sometimes ethically questionable tactics L would use in investigating Light as a suspect in the Kira murders, and Light's clever ways of throwing him off and covering up his true actions made for a lot of amazing moments (including making an announcement that he's eating a potato chip sound epic - it makes sense in context). Of course, the battle couldn't last forever, and at a certain point it made perfect sense for L to die.

    The problem was, the writer of the manga/anime was more or less making up the story as he went along. He got to a point where L's death made the most sense, and it would be hard to continue without L dying -- but the problem was, where does the story go from there? What does Light do once the biggest obstacle in his path to being 'the god of a new world' is out of the way? True, there were still members of the 'Kira Task Force' left, but as capable and well-meaning as they were, none of them were anywhere near as brilliant a detective as L.

    The writer's solution to the corner he'd written himself into was to introduce Near and Mello, two rivals for L's successor, to be Light's new opponents. Near, as it turned out, was the closest to being a worthy successor to L, but he was still introduced too late in the series, and didn't quite have the same presence as L did.

    Personally, I think the manga/anime lost something great when Light's father, Soichiro Yagami, died. He was the moral conscience of the show, with a strong sense of right and wrong. He would always be one of the first to voice objections to L's more ethically questionable tactics, and made it clear that no matter how justified the mysterious 'Kira' believes his actions to be, murder is still wrong. One definitely feels bad for him when his son comes under suspicion for being the killer, especially when we know that those suspicions are correct. When Soichiro dies, the show certainly loses something in its last few episodes.

    Various adaptations seem to work to correct these problems. The 2015 Japanese live action drama series introduces Near (and Mello, sort of) early on in the show. This way, he doesn't come out of nowhere and his status as L's possible successor is established before L comes even close to dying.

    The live-action Japanese movie adaptation keeps both L and Soichiro alive until the end (though in L's case, he's living on borrowed time due to a trick he pulled with a Death Note to delay the time of his death).

    The Death Note musical has L die right in front of Light, but Ryuk state that if Light just goes back to what he was doing before L came along (write a name of some bad person in the Death Note, wait for a death, write another name, wait for a death, write, wait, write, wait, and so on) then things would be just as boring as they were back in the Shinigami realm before all this started, so he writes Light's name in the Death Note at that point to bring things to an end there.

    (I haven't seen the 2017 Netflix series so I don't know how that series ends. All I know is that it's the least popular Death Note adaptation).

    But yes, the original problem with L's death was of course that the writer was making things up as he went along, and not really sure just where the story would go and how it would end. My guess is a lot of the other character deaths in this thread are this way - some, like L's death, make sense within the story but still present problems for the show going forward.
    I’d argue that L’s death was necessary for Light’s downfall as you’ve explained.

    Once he killed L and got off scott free, Light’s guard was totally down. He thought he won.

    Never realizing that L had successors waiting in the wings. Or that a smart guy like L would even have successors.Light’s hubris came back to defeat him.

  7. #157
    Sailing the seas Chris Lang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    I’d argue that L’s death was necessary for Light’s downfall as you’ve explained.

    Once he killed L and got off scott free, Light’s guard was totally down. He thought he won.

    Never realizing that L had successors waiting in the wings. Or that a smart guy like L would even have successors.Light’s hubris came back to defeat him.
    Good points, all of them. And yes, that's pretty much how it is in the original anime and manga, and in the 2015 live-action drama. In the last one, L's successors are introduced early on (L is prepared to bring Near into the investigation should it become necessary), but Light remains unaware of a successor's existence until L's death, so it's pretty much the same dynamic. It's just that the adaptation plays a bit more fair with the audience and doesn't bring the successors in out of seemingly nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    Lol. This whole thread is just one great big spoiler.
    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Yeah, there's no denying that for sure. But you take that risk any time you open a thread on any blog these days.
    Indeed. However, this thread's title should be enough of a spoiler warning. Much as how TV Tropes' 'Death Tropes' leave their spoilers unmarked, since just mentioning character names in the context of those tropes is in fact a spoiler.
    Last edited by Chris Lang; 08-24-2020 at 03:14 PM.

  8. #158
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    I infinitely prefer the live action Japanese movie’s outcome for Light and L over the anime. I found their endings much more satisfying and I didn’t like L’s successors.

  9. #159
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    Kirk in Star Trek Generations.

    It's not that killing Kirk itself is so bad, but having him fall off a bridge while fighting an old man and trying to save a race of primitives we never even see was just going out of their way to make it suck as much as possible. Then again, that seems to be the theme of the entire movie.

  10. #160
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    George Mason in 24 was probably a mistake in retrospect, as Xander Berkeley provided a much-needed comic foil to Jack Bauer's masturbatory Republican revenge fantasy. George Mason may have behun as the stuffed suit who comes in to take over from "Division" whenever anything remotely challenging happens conveniently within ten miles of the United States' only special anti-terrorist taskforce headquarters, but quickly progressed to the kind of guy who'd watch Jack Bauer vault over a fence, roll his eyes, and open the gate.

  11. #161
    Sailing the seas Chris Lang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Kirk in Star Trek Generations.

    It's not that killing Kirk itself is so bad, but having him fall off a bridge while fighting an old man and trying to save a race of primitives we never even see was just going out of their way to make it suck as much as possible. Then again, that seems to be the theme of the entire movie.
    It's so anti-climactic that TV Tropes has a trope named for it: Dropped A Bridge On Him (or Them). It's when an established character is killed off in an awkward, anti-climactic, or poorly thought out way. It's named, of course, for Kirk's death in Generations.

    However, it's worth noting that originally, it was going to be an even BIGGER anticlimax. Soran (the main antagonist) was originally going to shoot Kirk in the back. The bridge thing was an attempt to give it a little more 'oomph', which still failed. Hence TV Tropes naming a trope about poorly done character deaths after that incident.

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