X-Men / Fantastic Four #4 Previews

[Iron Maiden]

Everyone has their own struggles. But because she is not a Mutant, she is privileged in not having to experience the hatred and bigotry that is targeted at Mutants solely for the fact that they are Mutants.

I could also flip that around and say that mutants are privileged because they have powers a "basic" human (for lack of a better term) in the MU does not. Works both ways

No, context matters. Doombots traditionally are robot foot soldiers for Doom. It’s not an “oops” moment but putting any and all blame on Wolverine when it was intentionally a trap doesnt sound right.

Doom actually has used foot soldiers in the past that have armor that makes them look like robots. Some of the more advanced Doombots are able to act as Doom in his place. He keeps one of them locked in a dungeon for sentimental reasons because it did it's job so well (Books of Doom) And Zdarsky gave no explanation why Wolverine's senses didn't detect a human presence when he has done so in the past when faced with a high level Doombot and knew it was not the real McCoy.

[Tycon]

The way society depicts it, the term racist conveys a very specific image. It makes it seem like the FF outright hate the X-Men and are intentionally bigoted towards them.
But you're saying that the FF have to unlearn the inherent racism that comes with growing up in a racist society, then I agree. But this is more a nuanced and in-depth take that won't occur in comics. Things won't ever be analyzed like that.

But I never said they outright hated the X-Men. There are many ways to be intentionally and unintentionally racist.

I don't think that's fair to the characters when so much mischaracterization in comics happens thanks to the writers on the books or their inability to write characters or the story well.

Didn’t seem like mischaracterization since all the FF stans are saying this was simply Sue defending her baby. You can’t have it both ways lmao

I never expressed otherwise .

Lovely.

It's a shared universe so I think it's relevant enough in a discussion.

It’s a shared universe but nothing in the FF comic by Slott focuses on Franklin’s views on Krakoa, so it doesn’t really matter.

Not all the blame but I think Logan partially owns some of it even if he thought or was contrived into not thinking there was someone in there. Unless he doesn't feel responsibility or accidentally killing someone when he didn't intend to (which I think he should).

But this argument stemmed from Iron Maiden using what happened to Logan as a justifiable excuse to wage war on Mutants..

Doesn't everyone's ?

I never expressed otherwise .

[Frontier]

I could also flip that around and say that mutants are privileged because they have powers a "basic" human (for lack of a better term) in the MU does not. Works both ways

Granted, it also goes both ways that some on both sides have tried to wipe the other out at some point or another...
[QUOTE=Tycon;5064017]Didn’t seem like mischaracterization since all the FF stans are saying this was simply Sue defending her baby. You can’t have it both ways lmao.[QUOTE]
I think it can if Zdarsky did a bad job of depicting Sue's actions and playing into the two fandoms against one another. It's AvX all over again.

It’s a shared universe but nothing in the FF comic by Slott focuses on Franklin’s views on Krakoa, so it doesn’t really matter.

But it does focus on Franklin's character and motivations.

But this argument stemmed from Iron Maiden using what happened to Logan as a justifiable excuse to wage war on Mutants.

Well, that wasn't so much what I was discussing, but okay .

I never expressed otherwise .

So we're on the same page .

[Tycon]

I could also flip that around and say that mutants are privileged because they have powers a "basic" human (for lack of a better term) in the MU does not. Works both ways

In what way are humans being oppressed that Mutants aren’t? Not having powers doesn’t make you oppressed, and having powers doesn’t automatically make you privileged considering there are robots designed to murder you if you have them even if your power is having eyes all over your body.

Doom actually has used foot soldiers in the past that have armor that makes them look like robots. Some of the more advanced Doombots are able to act as Doom in his place.

Oh really? Like when?

[U.N. Owen]

It’s a shared universe but nothing in the FF comic by Slott focuses on Franklin’s views on Krakoa, so it doesn’t really matter.

While true, a shared universe is absolutely relevant as it sets up his hunger for power and his general apathy towards others in times of need.

[Tycon]

While true, a shared universe is absolutely relevant as it sets up his hunger for power and his general apathy towards others in times of need.

Sounds like your anti-Franklin bias is showing againnnnnn

[Frontier]

Sounds like your anti-Franklin bias is showing againnnnnn

Or it could just be a justifiable reading of him from Slott's FF...

[U.N. Owen]

Sounds like your anti-Franklin bias is showing againnnnnn

You have me all wrong. I'm not anti-Franklin. I'm anti-emo teenagers in comic books. The real ones I teach three times a week can at least make me laugh.

Or it could just be a justifiable reading of him from Slott's FF...

Honestly, most of my issues with Slott's Franklin comes from Issue 8 where he mistreats Alicia by taking advantage of her blindness, Issue 9 where he refuses to save his aunt and Wyatt from demons assaulting their car, and Issue 10 where he whines about being punished for his actions in the previous issues and how his family should be thanking him and rants about how he's a better god than any of the various heroic gods running around. Of course, there's the general theme of being so power focused despite being able to still warp reality to his whim.

[Zelena]

Honestly, most of my issues with Slott's Franklin comes from Issue 8 where he mistreats Alicia by taking advantage of her blindness, Issue 9 where he refuses to save his aunt and Wyatt from demons assaulting their car, and Issue 10 where he whines about being punished for his actions in the previous issues and how his family should be thanking him and rants about how he's a better god than any of the various heroic gods running around. Of course, there's the general theme of being so power focused despite being able to still warp reality to his whim.

He was such a nice kid…

[BAS]

You have me all wrong. I'm not anti-Franklin. I'm anti-emo teenagers in comic books. The real ones I teach three times a week can at least make me laugh.



Honestly, most of my issues with Slott's Franklin comes from Issue 8 where he mistreats Alicia by taking advantage of her blindness, Issue 9 where he refuses to save his aunt and Wyatt from demons assaulting their car, and Issue 10 where he whines about being punished for his actions in the previous issues and how his family should be thanking him and rants about how he's a better god than any of the various heroic gods running around. Of course, there's the general theme of being so power focused despite being able to still warp reality to his whim.

Sounds way more like an aversion to Slott writing Franklin than Franklin himself.

I thought aging up Franklin,Valeria and the rest of the Foundation kids was a good thing. The execution has left a lot to be desired.

[Chris0013]

Given his behavior in his family's book, I would sooner believed that Selene was a good person at heart than believe that Franklin just wants to "explore himself and people like him."

If you wanted to show him exploring himself and people like him, he should have never been in the lab at the end right before returning home. He should have been interacting with the mutants his age.

I think it has very rarely been presented in the books that he even cares he is a mutant. There was this...and a cameo in X-Men during Dark Reign when the X-Men were in San Fran of him worrying a little about it.

Don't get me wrong....I would like to see it more...but it should not consume him to the point of dismissing his family and embracing the whole "I am mutant...human law means nothing to me."

I would really like him to turn his back on Krakoa because he realizes they want him as their weapon and as I said above Xavier wiping his dad's mind.

[Tycon]

Or it could just be a justifiable reading of him from Slott's FF...

What about Slott’s run indicates he has a “hunger for power” if it really is so justifiable?

[Zelena]

I would really like him to turn his back on Krakoa because he realizes they want him as their weapon and as I said above Xavier wiping his dad's mind.

For adults, teenagers are unpredictable…

[Iron Maiden]

In what way are humans being oppressed that Mutants aren’t? Not having powers doesn’t make you oppressed, and having powers doesn’t automatically make you privileged considering there are robots designed to murder you if you have them even if your power is having eyes all over your body.

You're assuming that all mutants are not criminal or haven't behaving badly in the past.

I'd say Magneto poisoned the well a bit with human and mutant relations with stunts like this...

And there was that incident with the Russian submarine

[Iron Maiden]

Oh really? Like when?

As per you question about Doom having armored human guards that look like robots, this is from Fantastic Four #86. The guards being attacked by Doom's killer robots could pass for robots themselves.