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  1. #1
    Mighty Member
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    Default My wish for a Soft-Reboot

    Actually I am hoping that we get a kind of Soft-Reboot (Doomsday Clock,Superman Reborn) which brings the Pre-Flashpoint Timeline back along with keeping NEW52 and Rebirth Characters.

    So it would be nice if Conner shows up in Reign of Supermen and Jon gets born 1 year after or so.

    Pre-Flashpoint Stories then take place, with Jon being there as a kid, then after Conners Return, Conner leaves Smallville and marries Cassie and lives in Hawaii again, while Jon lives in Smallville with his grandparents.

    Conner needs to make this Nightwing Step and get a fresh place where he can develop as Superhero (like Nightwing in Blüdhaven)
    Jonathan showed that he prefers to live in a small town on a farm and can develop his powers there and many people prefer him as 10 year old guy.

    So Clark being around 35 years old, Conner being around 20 years old and Jon being around 10 years old..

  2. #2
    Spectacular Member
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    Great idea, but Bendis has to go first lol.

  3. #3

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    I like your idea, but I think we might have to expand on it. Let’s do like you said and basically give us a slightly tweaked Post-Crisis timeline. We know by using other timelines, the penultimate chapter in Superman’s life is Doomsday and it happened “roughly” 10 years after his debut. It is easy to shoot the wedding of Clark and Lois about a year later and we could tweak it to where she gets pregnant shortly after during the ElectroSupes storyline.

    So, putting a KonEl that doesn’t age right away in Reign of Superman, we can put the Death/Return saga at, say, year nine. Jon is born in year 11. Superman debuts at age 22. This would make him 43 (which works, because that would give him the time to be the epic character he is), if KonEl began aging, we could put him physically at around 19-20. Jon would be right at 10. Basically, everything after Lex becoming president would have Jon somehow in the picture, but living with The Kent’s in Smallville to keep him out of harms way with Clark and Lois flying out to visit four-five times a week.

    This way, you could tweak other corners of the universe as well. We know Tim Drake was Robin during Death/Return of Superman, so let’s slightly age him down to 12. This would make him early 20s as well using this sliding timeline. We have Barry die in Crisis around year 6, meaning he was around long enough to be a legend and it gives Wally about 8-10 years as The Flash before he returns. Kyle became GL in year 10, and held that mantle for about 5 years as the only GL. Infinite Crisis happened around year 16 (which makes the line about the last time Superman inspired anyone was when he died from Batman hit harder), Final Crisis year 17 followed by Blackest Night, Flashpoint, etc.

    If they used something LIKE this, you could find a way to please all fans. For example, some or all of the silver age stories could be tweaked and folded into those first 5 years before Crisis.

    Just a thought.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    That's perfection and exactly what I already wanted. The post Crisis/pre Flashpoint universe had the most well developed cohesive universe DC has had, at least since post Crisis anyways. New 52 was a bungled mess. Rebirth helped push things back to a better place, but there's still room for improvement.
    Basically just incorporating Jon into pre Flashpoint is all I really want of it, more or less. I'd love to see a mini series that gave us more details on Jon's life, peeks into how things went with him there.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    That's perfection and exactly what I already wanted. The post Crisis/pre Flashpoint universe had the most well developed cohesive universe DC has had, at least since post Crisis anyways. New 52 was a bungled mess. Rebirth helped push things back to a better place, but there's still room for improvement.
    Basically just incorporating Jon into pre Flashpoint is all I really want of it, more or less. I'd love to see a mini series that gave us more details on Jon's life, peeks into how things went with him there.
    This. But not a fan of Clark and Lois just dumping him in Smallville. And it really doesn't sound like something they would do either.

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    At this point I think what's needed is one of three things.

    A hard reboot (yes things are that bad, worse than before Flashpoint).

    A return to a post-Crisis continuity BEFORE all the damage done, a last generally healthy iteration. Around 2003 or so.

    A return to the pre-Crisis set up. Continuity wasn't exactly messed up then because continuity didn't matter as much. Make "Earth-1985" the main continuity and move forward from there and establish a history.

    What we have now though, a pre-FP/Rebirth/sparing New 52 mashup is absolutely unsustainable. I don't see DC succeeding in fixing it, because they never have been able to fix broken continuities; they've consistently failed at it for decades now.

    We could also have Saturn Girl kiss Jon, turn him into a frog, then someone accidentally squash him. But first things first.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 07-18-2020 at 12:04 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    This. But not a fan of Clark and Lois just dumping him in Smallville. And it really doesn't sound like something they would do either.
    And that’s cool. We could keep him in Metropolis or Hamilton County. Whatever’s clever.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    This. But not a fan of Clark and Lois just dumping him in Smallville. And it really doesn't sound like something they would do either.
    Yes, the whole dumping Jon off in Smallville was the one aspect of that I didn't like. Summer and holiday visits, absolutely, but not full time. Jon belongs with his parents (certainly my Lois and Clark wouldn't dump their child off with a grandparent full time (but that's another discussion...)

  9. #9
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    At this point I think what's needed is one of three things.

    A hard reboot (yes things are that bad, worse than before Flashpoint).

    A return to a post-Crisis continuity BEFORE all the damage done, a last generally healthy iteration. Around 2003 or so.

    A return to the pre-Crisis set up. Continuity wasn't exactly messed up then because continuity didn't matter as much. Make "Earth-1985" the main continuity and move forward from there and establish a history.

    What we have now though, a pre-FP/Rebirth/sparing New 52 mashup is absolutely unsustainable. I don't see DC succeeding in fixing it, because they never have been able to fix broken continuities; they've consistently failed at it for decades now.

    We could also have Saturn Girl kiss Jon, turn him into a frog, then someone accidentally squash him. But first things first.
    I would love to see some stories set on the classic pre Crisis Earth 1, but I'd rather the main universe be post Crisis. I think going back to pre Crisis as the main universe is just too far back for most fans to adjust to. I'd still support it if it happens, but it would have to be updated so much to bring it forward from 1986, it wouldn't be recognizable anymore anyways.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    I would love to see some stories set on the classic pre Crisis Earth 1, but I'd rather the main universe be post Crisis. I think going back to pre Crisis as the main universe is just too far back for most fans to adjust to. I'd still support it if it happens, but it would have to be updated so much to bring it forward from 1986, it wouldn't be recognizable anymore anyways.


    Why would there need to be an official main universe?
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llozymandias View Post
    Why would there need to be an official main universe?
    Well, ongoing series usually are set mainly in one universe. Characters cross over, team books, etc all work within a shared universe.
    I'm not opposed to setting books on different Earths as needed, such as the Earth 2 series.

  12. #12
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    Here’s be my idea:

    Superman: Stories set in an ambiguous “Present:” veteran Superman married to Lois, with Jon as a kid, Kara, Karen, and Kon all present in the current time space if the author wants to use them, and established rogues gallery. However, the writer has the freedom to try out anything else they want to do, under the understanding that it might be ignored by the next guy.

    Adventures of Superman: Stories set in an ambiguous “Past:” The writer can tell whatever stories they want, and try out whatever new origin ideas they want, with an unmarried Superman, a Lois investigating him, and a rising Lex Luthor. However, the writer has the freedom to try out anything else they want to do, under the understanding that it might be ignored by the next guy.

    Action Comics: Stories floating whenever the writer wants to around Metropolis with the entire world of Superman characters. However, the writer has the freedom to try out anything else they want to do, under the understanding that it might be ignored by the next guy.

    As to how you make sure no one steps over anyone else’s toes? Have the editor generally overview things, and juts have writers make deals and tell each other what ideas they have. If an idea sticks, keep it. If it doesn’t, shrug about it and just tell fans it won’t be addressed by the current team.
    Last edited by godisawesome; 07-18-2020 at 09:59 PM.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  13. #13
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    I am not into postcrisis superman origin. I would much rather they use morrison's origin.Also, The main universe concept sucks.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    Jon belongs with his parents (certainly my Lois and Clark wouldn't dump their child off with a grandparent full time (but that's another discussion...)


    Honestly, that's the biggest thing I want out of any reboot, hypothetical or otherwise. Either erase the Jor-El interference completely or change it so Clark and Lois weren't such willing participants in the ruining of their son's adolescence. Like...the age up was bad enough but the circumstances surrounding it is what's really upsetting. Because it's another great example of Bendis putting characters in a situation that would have been avoided if everyone wasn't suddenly acting as dumb as humanly possible.

    __________________________________________________ _______

    A soft reboot would be pretty good. Just a couple retcons here and there, mostly just to clean up any lingering effects of the New 52 and the parts of Bendis' run that I don't think worked very well (there actually were some bits that I think are okay and have potential. But we'll get into that later).

    For starters, all the bullshit with Jor-El, Rogol Zaar, and Krypton's extinction theory #234. That's gone. We don't need any of that. Krypton was just a doomed planet. It was nobody's fault. **** just happens. The entire character assassination of Jor-El, starting back when Rebirth began, can just go right out the window.

    What I really wanna focus on is the family and Clark being inspired to actually organize them similarly to how Bruce handles his (on a good day, anyway). It's a big world out there. Clark can't be everywhere and do everything at once. And now that he's got Kara, Conner, AND Jon (possibly two Jons); he's starting to think Bats might have had the right idea.

    For Conner and how I'd handle him, I've always kinda been privy to the idea of him becoming Metropolis' main protector while Clark branches out to take on threats around the world/universe/whatever. He'd pretty much be a street level Superman. Someone who's a little rougher around the edges than the Supes that the city is used to but he's also got a certain....swagger to him that slowly wins the people over. He'd probably need a new code name too since Jon's Superboy. He could just use his Kryptonian name. It'd work a lot better than Tim using his fucking last name. But I'm sure there are more creative options than that. Also, if they havn't been already, his memories as a Titan (before Flashpoint) are back.

    I'd also like to include Kara in this too since it often feels like she's forgotten. Honestly...I say give her the Justice League. That's whole story arc right there with Clark having enough faith in her to give her his spot on the team that he founded, and her initially butting heads with some of the other Leaguers who'd just be like "You're cool and all but...you're not Clark".

    Admittedly, I do like Bendis' idea of Superman founding this United Alliance of Planets or whatever the **** it's called. So his main focus could be on that (which is why Conner's now looking after Metropolis and Kara is with the League). His adventures would mostly consist of handling worldwide and cosmic threats.

    Jon...I have two ideas for him. Because I think there's at least a temporary way to do his age up thing while keeping everyone mostly happy. We got the normal, ten year old Jon who's still doing Super Sons stuff and occasionally acting as a partner for Conner, Clark, and Kara (basically whoever's free for a team up and could use an extra hand). Hell, maybe he finally gets to be a Teen Titan. It's not like being ten years old stopped Damian from joining back in Johns' run. While I don't think he should be permanently living with his grandparents or anything, I do like the idea of him being a protector of sorts for Smallville. I don't really see that town getting too many threats that he can't handle on his own.

    Now here's where I'm going back and forth because I think it's an idea that could work but might not be something that could be sustained forever. Seventeen year old Jon is still a thing and still with the Legion. But the circumstances surrounding that are WAY different since all the Jor-El stuff is out of the picture. He's basically just Jon from seven years in the future. A new generation of the Legion (and I mean that. A new generation. Which means Clark's generation still exist and his time with his legion still happened) recruit him and the Legion book would just be about that future version of Jon. For one reason or another, older Jon ends up in the present (or the past in his case) and has the occasional team up with the rest of the Superfam, including his younger self. This would officially make him a part of a separate timeline. Meaning he's now an alternate version of Jon instead of his, set in stone, future self. If that makes sense. Basically, it's a way to have both Jons around without taking away the stakes of any situation young Jon might find himself in (so there's no "My future self is right there and he's fine. That must mean everything's gonna go right for me"). If there are any Dragonball fans out there, it's a Trunks/Future Trunks kind of scenario.

    So I'm thinking the books that would be affected by these changes include:

    Superman - Obviously about Superman as he's dealing with the United Space Force or whatever. Getting into cosmic shenanigans and taking on the bigger threats that only he's capable of taking on.

    Action Comics - Shared by Conner and Young Jon. Have the focus switch between characters every story arc or so. We got Conner protecting Metropolis and Jon protecting Smallville (or Hamilton...or both). This would also be where most of the full family team ups happen.

    Super Sons and/or Teen Titans - I'd probably go with one or the other as a full on series. If Jon and Damian are apart of both, there's not really much of a point in them existing at the same time. Super Sons could easily just be a part of Action Comics. Obviously the Titans line-up would be different than the current one. And I'm definitely getting Maya in there (maybe Kathy too).

    Supergirl - Kara's solo adventures. Not really much else to say. I can't really think of a new direction to take her in there.

    Justice League - Superman relinquishing his spot on the team to Kara and the aftermath of that decision.

    Legion of Superheros - Alternate future Jon's adventures in the even further future. And, again, Clark's legion and his history with that legion are still intact. The legion that Future Jon's a part of is a new generation of that same team. Not a rebooted version of them.

    Also, I'm putting the cap back on Clark's secret identity for now. Maybe that could be revisited again in the future but I'm not a big fan of that. I'd be more okay with Bruce forgoing his secret identity but that's a whole other discussion.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post

    Honestly, that's the biggest thing I want out of any reboot, hypothetical or otherwise. Either erase the Jor-El interference completely or change it so Clark and Lois weren't such willing participants in the ruining of their son's adolescence. Like...the age up was bad enough but the circumstances surrounding it is what's really upsetting. Because it's another great example of Bendis putting characters in a situation that would have been avoided if everyone wasn't suddenly acting as dumb as humanly possible.

    __________________________________________________ _______

    A soft reboot would be pretty good. Just a couple retcons here and there, mostly just to clean up any lingering effects of the New 52 and the parts of Bendis' run that I don't think worked very well (there actually were some bits that I think are okay and have potential. But we'll get into that later).

    For starters, all the bullshit with Jor-El, Rogol Zaar, and Krypton's extinction theory #234. That's gone. We don't need any of that. Krypton was just a doomed planet. It was nobody's fault. **** just happens. The entire character assassination of Jor-El, starting back when Rebirth began, can just go right out the window.

    What I really wanna focus on is the family and Clark being inspired to actually organize them similarly to how Bruce handles his (on a good day, anyway). It's a big world out there. Clark can't be everywhere and do everything at once. And now that he's got Kara, Conner, AND Jon (possibly two Jons); he's starting to think Bats might have had the right idea.

    For Conner and how I'd handle him, I've always kinda been privy to the idea of him becoming Metropolis' main protector while Clark branches out to take on threats around the world/universe/whatever. He'd pretty much be a street level Superman. Someone who's a little rougher around the edges than the Supes that the city is used to but he's also got a certain....swagger to him that slowly wins the people over. He'd probably need a new code name too since Jon's Superboy. He could just use his Kryptonian name. It'd work a lot better than Tim using his fucking last name. But I'm sure there are more creative options than that. Also, if they havn't been already, his memories as a Titan (before Flashpoint) are back.

    I'd also like to include Kara in this too since it often feels like she's forgotten. Honestly...I say give her the Justice League. That's whole story arc right there with Clark having enough faith in her to give her his spot on the team that he founded, and her initially butting heads with some of the other Leaguers who'd just be like "You're cool and all but...you're not Clark".

    Admittedly, I do like Bendis' idea of Superman founding this United Alliance of Planets or whatever the **** it's called. So his main focus could be on that (which is why Conner's now looking after Metropolis and Kara is with the League). His adventures would mostly consist of handling worldwide and cosmic threats.

    Jon...I have two ideas for him. Because I think there's at least a temporary way to do his age up thing while keeping everyone mostly happy. We got the normal, ten year old Jon who's still doing Super Sons stuff and occasionally acting as a partner for Conner, Clark, and Kara (basically whoever's free for a team up and could use an extra hand). Hell, maybe he finally gets to be a Teen Titan. It's not like being ten years old stopped Damian from joining back in Johns' run. While I don't think he should be permanently living with his grandparents or anything, I do like the idea of him being a protector of sorts for Smallville. I don't really see that town getting too many threats that he can't handle on his own.

    Now here's where I'm going back and forth because I think it's an idea that could work but might not be something that could be sustained forever. Seventeen year old Jon is still a thing and still with the Legion. But the circumstances surrounding that are WAY different since all the Jor-El stuff is out of the picture. He's basically just Jon from seven years in the future. A new generation of the Legion (and I mean that. A new generation. Which means Clark's generation still exist and his time with his legion still happened) recruit him and the Legion book would just be about that future version of Jon. For one reason or another, older Jon ends up in the present (or the past in his case) and has the occasional team up with the rest of the Superfam, including his younger self. This would officially make him a part of a separate timeline. Meaning he's now an alternate version of Jon instead of his, set in stone, future self. If that makes sense. Basically, it's a way to have both Jons around without taking away the stakes of any situation young Jon might find himself in (so there's no "My future self is right there and he's fine. That must mean everything's gonna go right for me"). If there are any Dragonball fans out there, it's a Trunks/Future Trunks kind of scenario.

    So I'm thinking the books that would be affected by these changes include:

    Superman - Obviously about Superman as he's dealing with the United Space Force or whatever. Getting into cosmic shenanigans and taking on the bigger threats that only he's capable of taking on.

    Action Comics - Shared by Conner and Young Jon. Have the focus switch between characters every story arc or so. We got Conner protecting Metropolis and Jon protecting Smallville (or Hamilton...or both). This would also be where most of the full family team ups happen.

    Super Sons and/or Teen Titans - I'd probably go with one or the other as a full on series. If Jon and Damian are apart of both, there's not really much of a point in them existing at the same time. Super Sons could easily just be a part of Action Comics. Obviously the Titans line-up would be different than the current one. And I'm definitely getting Maya in there (maybe Kathy too).

    Supergirl - Kara's solo adventures. Not really much else to say. I can't really think of a new direction to take her in there.

    Justice League - Superman relinquishing his spot on the team to Kara and the aftermath of that decision.

    Legion of Superheros - Alternate future Jon's adventures in the even further future. And, again, Clark's legion and his history with that legion are still intact. The legion that Future Jon's a part of is a new generation of that same team. Not a rebooted version of them.

    Also, I'm putting the cap back on Clark's secret identity for now. Maybe that could be revisited again in the future but I'm not a big fan of that. I'd be more okay with Bruce forgoing his secret identity but that's a whole other discussion.
    Conner should get his WHOLE PRE-FLASHPOINT HISTORY back!

    This includes IC, his death etc. etc.
    So he is therefore already on the level of Batman,Superman,Flash,Wonder Woman,Nightwing....based on popularity among normal people and Superheroes...

    Sorry, but Conner was able to fight against Superboy Prime,Cyborg Superman,Aquaman etc. and so is WIDE ABOVE Street Level and him being in Metropolis is HORRIBLE...

    Conner has only two logical steps:
    a) Clark retires and gives the mantle to Conner
    b) Like I said Conner goes back to Hawaii and protects Hawaii and also becomes member/leader of a new formation of PAX GALACTICA which should include all hero lanterns, hero-alien races etc. etc.

    This is what Conner needs:
    his own place (Hawaii) where he is the only Superhero there and is known for it...like Batman is for Gotham,Clark for Metropolis etc. etc.

    Superman Unchained actually showed PERFECTLY how a Conner Book can be:

    Conner saving people (spaceships,vulcanos,earthquakes...), fighting against powerful villains Mongul,Cyborg Superman.....

    Superman: Supermans own book
    Superman of Hawaii (or so): Conner
    Action Comics: Kara and Jonathan
    Titans: Not sure, but I would make a book with Conner,Cassie,Tim,Bart,Raven,Traci13,Jessica Cruz,Miss Martian....(Pre-Flashpoint TT in their adult Version)

    You just have to mix Superman Unchained with Superboy (Hawaii, Kessel)

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