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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Unfortunately some of the other franchises are tied to Superman because for decades he was the big dog. Aquaman was like you said, tucked away in his own little corner, as was Flash. But as an example of someone who wasn’t, take Green Lantern. Johns’ definitive run built heavily off of continuity stuff like Hal’s turn to Parallux which came about because of a Superman story, or Blackest Night which was heavily built off of DC continuity at the time. GL made no sense after the reboot because a lot of the big stories in Johns’ run couldn’t have happened the way they did in the past. Like Sinestro Corps War, how the hell did that happen with no Anti-Monitor, Superboy-Prime, Conner Kent, etc.
    I think Aquaman had a notable role in blackest night too, how that fits with the new 52 version of Arthur, I have no idea. Also apparently current Aquaman also had a fishhook for a hand at one point, no idea when or how that happened but it did.
    New 52 Superman died not because of Batman and GL, but because they ran out of ideas, and were resorting to stuff like having him riding a motorcycle around metropolis looking like a skinhead. Sometimes a fresh take goes stale fast.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    The Ultimate line was a "Greatest Hits" modern retelling. It wasn't a reboot, it wasn't tossing out 30 years of stories and telling you they sucked. Ultimate Spider-Man really didn't stray all that far from the baseline Spider-Man. It tweaked things here and there, reordered and modernized them, but it wasn't anything too drastic and stuck to the core of the most popular version of Spider-Man at the time.

    The rest of the Ultimate line was more off model so to speak, but they really didn't have the success or longevity of Ultimate Spider-Man. And that's likely due to Bendis sticking with it for like 15 years. And *ultimately* once the novelty wore off the Ultimate line fizzled and faded away. In fact, outside of Ultimate Spider-Man once Millar & Hitch left The Ultimates the line really took a nosedive in both quality and popularity if I'm recalling things correctly. After Millar finished Ultimates 2 you get Loeb and Ultimatum and that was a disaster.

  3. #63
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    It was less novelty wearing off and moreso that the Ultimate Universe eventually acquired the same problem it was created to avoid: It had acquired years of continuity that made its position as an easy to get into MU compared to 616 untenable. It had outlived its purpose, but a lot of the good ideas were used in 616 or in the MCU. DC could use something like that, especially since so many of their event stories aren’t about utilizing their IPs to the full extent, but trying to do continuity cleanup.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    It was less novelty wearing off and moreso that the Ultimate Universe eventually acquired the same problem it was created to avoid: It had acquired years of continuity that made its position as an easy to get into MU compared to 616 untenable. It had outlived its purpose, but a lot of the good ideas were used in 616 or in the MCU.
    Could there be a lesson here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    DC could use something like that, especially since so many of their event stories aren’t about utilizing their IPs to the full extent, but trying to do continuity cleanup.
    There is a lesson here!

  5. #65
    Incredible Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post


    Honestly, that's the biggest thing I want out of any reboot, hypothetical or otherwise. Either erase the Jor-El interference completely or change it so Clark and Lois weren't such willing participants in the ruining of their son's adolescence. Like...the age up was bad enough but the circumstances surrounding it is what's really upsetting. Because it's another great example of Bendis putting characters in a situation that would have been avoided if everyone wasn't suddenly acting as dumb as humanly possible.

    __________________________________________________ _______

    A soft reboot would be pretty good. Just a couple retcons here and there, mostly just to clean up any lingering effects of the New 52 and the parts of Bendis' run that I don't think worked very well (there actually were some bits that I think are okay and have potential. But we'll get into that later).

    For starters, all the bullshit with Jor-El, Rogol Zaar, and Krypton's extinction theory #234. That's gone. We don't need any of that. Krypton was just a doomed planet. It was nobody's fault. **** just happens. The entire character assassination of Jor-El, starting back when Rebirth began, can just go right out the window.

    What I really wanna focus on is the family and Clark being inspired to actually organize them similarly to how Bruce handles his (on a good day, anyway). It's a big world out there. Clark can't be everywhere and do everything at once. And now that he's got Kara, Conner, AND Jon (possibly two Jons); he's starting to think Bats might have had the right idea.

    For Conner and how I'd handle him, I've always kinda been privy to the idea of him becoming Metropolis' main protector while Clark branches out to take on threats around the world/universe/whatever. He'd pretty much be a street level Superman. Someone who's a little rougher around the edges than the Supes that the city is used to but he's also got a certain....swagger to him that slowly wins the people over. He'd probably need a new code name too since Jon's Superboy. He could just use his Kryptonian name. It'd work a lot better than Tim using his fucking last name. But I'm sure there are more creative options than that. Also, if they havn't been already, his memories as a Titan (before Flashpoint) are back.

    I'd also like to include Kara in this too since it often feels like she's forgotten. Honestly...I say give her the Justice League. That's whole story arc right there with Clark having enough faith in her to give her his spot on the team that he founded, and her initially butting heads with some of the other Leaguers who'd just be like "You're cool and all but...you're not Clark".

    Admittedly, I do like Bendis' idea of Superman founding this United Alliance of Planets or whatever the **** it's called. So his main focus could be on that (which is why Conner's now looking after Metropolis and Kara is with the League). His adventures would mostly consist of handling worldwide and cosmic threats.

    Jon...I have two ideas for him. Because I think there's at least a temporary way to do his age up thing while keeping everyone mostly happy. We got the normal, ten year old Jon who's still doing Super Sons stuff and occasionally acting as a partner for Conner, Clark, and Kara (basically whoever's free for a team up and could use an extra hand). Hell, maybe he finally gets to be a Teen Titan. It's not like being ten years old stopped Damian from joining back in Johns' run. While I don't think he should be permanently living with his grandparents or anything, I do like the idea of him being a protector of sorts for Smallville. I don't really see that town getting too many threats that he can't handle on his own.

    Now here's where I'm going back and forth because I think it's an idea that could work but might not be something that could be sustained forever. Seventeen year old Jon is still a thing and still with the Legion. But the circumstances surrounding that are WAY different since all the Jor-El stuff is out of the picture. He's basically just Jon from seven years in the future. A new generation of the Legion (and I mean that. A new generation. Which means Clark's generation still exist and his time with his legion still happened) recruit him and the Legion book would just be about that future version of Jon. For one reason or another, older Jon ends up in the present (or the past in his case) and has the occasional team up with the rest of the Superfam, including his younger self. This would officially make him a part of a separate timeline. Meaning he's now an alternate version of Jon instead of his, set in stone, future self. If that makes sense. Basically, it's a way to have both Jons around without taking away the stakes of any situation young Jon might find himself in (so there's no "My future self is right there and he's fine. That must mean everything's gonna go right for me"). If there are any Dragonball fans out there, it's a Trunks/Future Trunks kind of scenario.

    So I'm thinking the books that would be affected by these changes include:

    Superman - Obviously about Superman as he's dealing with the United Space Force or whatever. Getting into cosmic shenanigans and taking on the bigger threats that only he's capable of taking on.

    Action Comics - Shared by Conner and Young Jon. Have the focus switch between characters every story arc or so. We got Conner protecting Metropolis and Jon protecting Smallville (or Hamilton...or both). This would also be where most of the full family team ups happen.

    Super Sons and/or Teen Titans - I'd probably go with one or the other as a full on series. If Jon and Damian are apart of both, there's not really much of a point in them existing at the same time. Super Sons could easily just be a part of Action Comics. Obviously the Titans line-up would be different than the current one. And I'm definitely getting Maya in there (maybe Kathy too).

    Supergirl - Kara's solo adventures. Not really much else to say. I can't really think of a new direction to take her in there.

    Justice League - Superman relinquishing his spot on the team to Kara and the aftermath of that decision.

    Legion of Superheros - Alternate future Jon's adventures in the even further future. And, again, Clark's legion and his history with that legion are still intact. The legion that Future Jon's a part of is a new generation of that same team. Not a rebooted version of them.


    Also, I'm putting the cap back on Clark's secret identity for now. Maybe that could be revisited again in the future but I'm not a big fan of that. I'd be more okay with Bruce forgoing his secret identity but that's a whole other discussion.
    This is exactly what Bendis should've done with the Legion reboot!!! Great idea!

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