My wish for a Soft-Reboot

[Masterff]

I like your idea, but I think we might have to expand on it. Let’s do like you said and basically give us a slightly tweaked Post-Crisis timeline. We know by using other timelines, the penultimate chapter in Superman’s life is Doomsday and it happened “roughly” 10 years after his debut. It is easy to shoot the wedding of Clark and Lois about a year later and we could tweak it to where she gets pregnant shortly after during the ElectroSupes storyline.

So, putting a KonEl that doesn’t age right away in Reign of Superman, we can put the Death/Return saga at, say, year nine. Jon is born in year 11. Superman debuts at age 22. This would make him 43 (which works, because that would give him the time to be the epic character he is), if KonEl began aging, we could put him physically at around 19-20. Jon would be right at 10. Basically, everything after Lex becoming president would have Jon somehow in the picture, but living with The Kent’s in Smallville to keep him out of harms way with Clark and Lois flying out to visit four-five times a week.

This way, you could tweak other corners of the universe as well. We know Tim Drake was Robin during Death/Return of Superman, so let’s slightly age him down to 12. This would make him early 20s as well using this sliding timeline. We have Barry die in Crisis around year 6, meaning he was around long enough to be a legend and it gives Wally about 8-10 years as The Flash before he returns. Kyle became GL in year 10, and held that mantle for about 5 years as the only GL. Infinite Crisis happened around year 16 (which makes the line about the last time Superman inspired anyone was when he died from Batman hit harder), Final Crisis year 17 followed by Blackest Night, Flashpoint, etc.

If they used something LIKE this, you could find a way to please all fans. For example, some or all of the silver age stories could be tweaked and folded into those first 5 years before Crisis.

Just a thought.

Conner should be allowed to age from the beginning and be made a Kryptonian/Human Hybrid just from the beginning.
It simplifies everything and it was never something what was really important.

Conner needs to finally become older than 20, so he isnt a teenager anymore...

I would say:
Clark: 35-37 (It doesnt mean anything, since he is Kryptonian)
Conner: 20-21
Jonathan: 10

Problem with the ages is that Jons age here wouldnt make much sense, since Conners first appearance and Jonathans birth would be close to each other and so Conner actually should be 25 when Jonathan becomes 10.

Here’s be my idea:

Superman: Stories set in an ambiguous “Present:” veteran Superman married to Lois, with Jon as a kid, Kara, Karen, and Kon all present in the current time space if the author wants to use them, and established rogues gallery. However, the writer has the freedom to try out anything else they want to do, under the understanding that it might be ignored by the next guy.

Adventures of Superman: Stories set in an ambiguous “Past:” The writer can tell whatever stories they want, and try out whatever new origin ideas they want, with an unmarried Superman, a Lois investigating him, and a rising Lex Luthor. However, the writer has the freedom to try out anything else they want to do, under the understanding that it might be ignored by the next guy.

Action Comics: Stories floating whenever the writer wants to around Metropolis with the entire world of Superman characters. However, the writer has the freedom to try out anything else they want to do, under the understanding that it might be ignored by the next guy.

As to how you make sure no one steps over anyone else’s toes? Have the editor generally overview things, and juts have writers make deals and tell each other what ideas they have. If an idea sticks, keep it. If it doesn’t, shrug about it and just tell fans it won’t be addressed by the current team.

THREE BOOKS FOR CLARK????

ADVENTURE OF SUPERMAN: This can be a special Else-World Book which comes out once every year or so...

SUPERMAN: All the characters sharing one book??

Better solution would be:

SUPERMAN: Clark in the present with Jonathan, Lois etc.

SUPERMAN OF HAWAII: Conners Book

SUPERGIRL

SuperSons

This would actually be perfect:

Every character gets spotlight, different tunes, different locations etc. etc.

Conner is more important than Kara, given that he was there before her, he has the better feats (Gog,Doomsday,Superboy Prime,Cyborg Superman...) and he was also more popular among the people...

Conner has the chance to become as successfull as Flash,Wonder Woman etc. IF he can finally take the NIGHTWING step (new Code-Name, becoming older and getting an area of his own).

Conner works perfectly as the Nightwing of the Super-Family, he is the young,edgy,cool equivalent to Clark like Dick is to Bruce.
What he needs is:
1. To get portrayed as being competent and people also asking him etc. like its with Nightwing
2. also being able to argue etc. with the JL like Nightwing did when he asked for his team (saying that he doesnt ask for permission..)
and also be considered by the JL to lead Teams and being respected by them etc.
3. use his TT Power-Level and feats etc. BUT combine it with the coolness,groove etc. of the Kessel Hawaii Superboy

So for Jonathan Samuel Kent it should be like its for Tim Drake and Damian: you either go to Bruce(Clark) or to Dick(Conner)


Its the perfect solution, give Conner the Pre-Flashpoint History (with feats etc.) back and let him move to Hawaii, so he has freedom to develop and has an area of his own to protect and its like a PERFECT CIRCLE, he started in Hawaii and now he comes back.

[scary harpy]

...

A hard reboot (yes things are that bad, worse than before Flashpoint).

...

A hard reboot is the only thing DC has never actually done.

All their soft reboots failed.

So I vote for a hard reboot.

[Kuwagaton]

Yeah, I'm done with the idea of soft reboots because they never fail to stop some obvious details from goofing them up. It's like spraying sanitizer on dirt.

I'm all for something new and well planned at a given moment. I'd also like a 1970-1986 version, or a 1986-2003 version, because they're really easy to re establish if you're not working to integrate them into other takes. And seriously, I don't think it's counterintuitive to do that while keeping other DC titles as they are.

[godisawesome]

The one big, fatal objection I’d have a hard reboot is the hard relaunch aspect as well - the part where certain characters and ideas are boarded off and declared persona-non-grata until the books “reach” them... usually because you’re alienating fans int he already niche comic community, and you’re gambling that you’ll be able to match each character and concept’s best introduction to the mythos, and are just as likely to fail miserably at that as succeed.

I’d be up for a hard continuity reboot if they sat down and constructed a “series bible“ that would provide a backbone for books set at different points of the timeline. I really don’t want to be forced to hope that DC manages the perfect “murderer’s row” of creators on a long, slow retelling process, particularly with Superman, where I wouldn’t trust editorial to keep great artists locked down for long enough.

[superduperman]

At this point I think what's needed is one of three things.

A hard reboot (yes things are that bad, worse than before Flashpoint).

A return to a post-Crisis continuity BEFORE all the damage done, a last generally healthy iteration. Around 2003 or so.

A return to the pre-Crisis set up. Continuity wasn't exactly messed up then because continuity didn't matter as much. Make "Earth-1985" the main continuity and move forward from there and establish a history.

What we have now though, a pre-FP/Rebirth/sparing New 52 mashup is absolutely unsustainable. I don't see DC succeeding in fixing it, because they never have been able to fix broken continuities; they've consistently failed at it for decades now.

We could also have Saturn Girl kiss Jon, turn him into a frog, then someone accidentally squash him. But first things first.

I've come to the conclusion this is the only real solution at this point. COIE was necessary at the time but the post-era was handled so poorly that I just don't see how we can go back to it without re-creating the problems that went along with it. Even if they were to go back to a post-Crisis model, I would say something closer to 1998 or 1999 would be more logical. I think the Superman continuity went downhill after 2000. That's not even taking into account the rest of the DCU.

The only other solution I can think of is something closer to the Wal-Mart books where you have a loose Archies style continuity. There are carved in stones but the universe more or less resets itself after every story.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

A hard reboot is a pipe dream that would never work, it goes against the nature of what dc is. Even if they did it, it would only be a short matter of time before the new car smell wears off and writers-not just readers- writers! would absolutely want to use and build off of older stuff they like and start bringing what they want back. If you think otherwise, you’re lying to yourself.

[objectivewatcher2013]

Great ideas. Now can we at least get the Rebirth costume ba k in some form. There was nothing wrong it. The silly attempt at nostalgia with returning to that old outfit accomplished NOTHING, zero, nada, zilch. I don't see people saying Wonder Woman has to go back to star bikini, why does Superman have to go back to those sorry old trunks?

[beetee]

Fans wanting reboots are the problem. "Your" DC or "My" DC is never coming back. Continuity problems are a feature not a bug of modern comic book narrative. Especially when you have fans that hang on for decades with deep longboxes. Best option is to reestablish an infinite Multiverse and let it go. If you don't like the current direction or whatever leave a title for a time and come back to it later when there is a regime change. Constantly pandering to our desires for a "fix" never lasts longer than the first year or two anyways.

[Ra-El]

The solution is called Hickman. Look at what he did with the X-Men. I don't know exactly what is the continuity there, but I don't care, Hickman made it so that the now is what really matters, this is what Superman needs.

When we think about the rumors that he wanted go to DC, to Legion and JSA...

Anyway, he said in a interview that X-Men was the last thing he really wanted to do on Marvel, everything else was on DC. Let's wait.

[Morgoth]

He wanted to do something with Titans, as far, as I remember.

[Restingvoice]

How old was Kon to Tim? Tim was 17 in Pre-Flashpoint Red Robin, so my first reaction was 20 years old Kon is too old.

[llozymandias]

Well, ongoing series usually are set mainly in one universe. Characters cross over, team books, etc all work within a shared universe.
I'm not opposed to setting books on different Earths as needed, such as the Earth 2 series.

Things like character cross overs also work in a shared multiverse. One of the reasons that flashpoint/new 52 angered many fans was that they felt like DC had just pulled a big bait & switch on them. DC had made it look like they were going to use many of the previous continuities. Along with the then current one.


Also if i ran DC, there would be many "main universes". A main universe would be one that has multiple titles set in it. Over time all the past continuities would be used, at some point or other.

[The World]

I dont really get spear heading a reboot to mush around dates of events and possibly reassign who gets what book when inevitably it will get rearranged. American cape comics are just fanfiction basically. If the impetus for doing a reboot is to fix continuity you'll be stuck in a loop of continuity reboots. Batman and Spiderman aren't popular because they have sterling continuities but because the general ingredients that make them Spiderman and Batman are understood and agreed upon. Its why the characters can have a variety of interpretations that all are working from the same mulch. Superman meanwhile has undergone purges of his characteristics

[Masterff]

Fans wanting reboots are the problem. "Your" DC or "My" DC is never coming back. Continuity problems are a feature not a bug of modern comic book narrative. Especially when you have fans that hang on for decades with deep longboxes. Best option is to reestablish an infinite Multiverse and let it go. If you don't like the current direction or whatever leave a title for a time and come back to it later when there is a regime change. Constantly pandering to our desires for a "fix" never lasts longer than the first year or two anyways.

WRONG!!!
The REAL REAL REAL Problem is NOT Fans wanting reboots.

And its NOT!!! mine etc.

Pre-Flashpoint might have had some problems, BUT it was really almost perfect for me.
Then NEW52 came with the hard reboot and I HATED it, it changed many things (Supermans Parents dead, new Origin etc. for Kon-El, new Origin for Cassandra Sandsmark and Diana, Wally West, "new" Bart Allen...)

Rebirth,Superman Reborn and Doomsday Clock were STEPS in the right direction and I am sure that DC Fans now like DC better than during NEW52 days.

A hard reboot is the only thing DC has never actually done.

All their soft reboots failed.

So I vote for a hard reboot.

Its actually the OTHER WAY ROUND!!

NEW52 was a HARD REBOOT in which characters were changed drastically:
-Superman (much younger with other character)
-Superboy (different origin+powers)
-Wonder Woman (different origin+powers also changed)
-Kid Flash (Bart Allen imposter...)

It was soft-rebooted into Rebirth which is closer to Pre-Flashpoint and IT WORKED BETTER...

Yeah, I'm done with the idea of soft reboots because they never fail to stop some obvious details from goofing them up. It's like spraying sanitizer on dirt.

I'm all for something new and well planned at a given moment. I'd also like a 1970-1986 version, or a 1986-2003 version, because they're really easy to re establish if you're not working to integrate them into other takes. And seriously, I don't think it's counterintuitive to do that while keeping other DC titles as they are.

Soft-Reboot its the only change DC has, because you can keep all the characters and keep the stories which are loved by the fans..

How old was Kon to Tim? Tim was 17 in Pre-Flashpoint Red Robin, so my first reaction was 20 years old Kon is too old.

When was Tim 17 in Pre-Flashpoint?
I always considered him being 20 or so in the last stories in Pre-Flashpoint.

Kon being 20 makes actually PERFECT sense.

He was born as 16 year old guy and if you add his Solo-Series,YJ,TT and time between death and return than its LOGICAL if you see them being 20 years old.

How old was Tim as they started YJ? I thougth that Bart,Conner,Cassie and Tim were all 4 at (more or less) the same age.
You have only to think that there was 1 YEAR!! between Conners death during IC and his return.

Its LOGICAL for me and its the PERFECT SOLUTION:
Conner,Cassie,Bart and Tim can move on and get away from the teenage Superheroes and develop themselves
Jon,Damian,Wallace,Iris,Crush,Emiko...can stay together a TT....

Its LOGICAL and PERFECT SOLUTION for Tims Team and PERFECT SOLUTION for Damians Team.

[Masterff]

The one big, fatal objection I’d have a hard reboot is the hard relaunch aspect as well - the part where certain characters and ideas are boarded off and declared persona-non-grata until the books “reach” them... usually because you’re alienating fans int he already niche comic community, and you’re gambling that you’ll be able to match each character and concept’s best introduction to the mythos, and are just as likely to fail miserably at that as succeed.

I’d be up for a hard continuity reboot if they sat down and constructed a “series bible“ that would provide a backbone for books set at different points of the timeline. I really don’t want to be forced to hope that DC manages the perfect “murderer’s row” of creators on a long, slow retelling process, particularly with Superman, where I wouldn’t trust editorial to keep great artists locked down for long enough.

A hard reboot is a pipe dream that would never work, it goes against the nature of what dc is. Even if they did it, it would only be a short matter of time before the new car smell wears off and writers-not just readers- writers! would absolutely want to use and build off of older stuff they like and start bringing what they want back. If you think otherwise, you’re lying to yourself.

Sorry-but NEW52 was a HARD REBOOT or?

You DONT NEED a HARD REBOOT...

Its more logical and easy to do a "SUPERMAN REBORN" event:

For Superman you just have to say:
-I landed on Earth, was adopted by the Kents
-I became Superman
-I married Lois Lane
-I "died" during the Doomsday Fight
-Conner,Steel,Eradicator and Cyborg Superman showed up
-I "adopted" Conner as part of the House of Kent
-Supergirl came to Earth
-Lois became pregnant with Jonathan and Jonathan was born 1 year after "Reign of Supermen"
-Conner became also part of the Kent-Family and joined the TT
-Conner died and returned
-Conner gave the title of Superboy to Jonathan Samuel Kent and Conner moved to Hawaii with Cassie

So you can perfectly combine Pre-Flashpoint with Rebirth and you can keep all the characters..

For Batman you just have to say:
-my parents were killed
-I travelled around the world to learn
-I became Batman
-I met Red Hood and he became Joker
-I adopted Dick
-Dick became Nightwing
-I met Jason
-Jason died
-Tim "replaced" Jason
-Knightfall
-Damian showed up and became Robin

Its pretty simple, EVERY character has only these really BIG Steps in his life, which have to be in EVERY CONTINUITY.

Its actually RIDICULOUSLY EASY...

You just have to do that...
The rest are details which are unnecessary...and they dont change nothing if they are in continuity or not..

For example if Batman arrested the Joker 10,20,50,60 times it doesnt matter if you write a Batman Series.