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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    I'm sure at some point he'll be a villain again. See Sandman, Superior Spider-man, Invincible Iron Man, Sabretooth, Helmut Zemo for reference. Just a matter of time before the status quo strikes again.
    Welp, that's sad.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Venom has a sucessfull movie as a hero thought, with a sequel on the way.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Welp, that's sad.
    Indeed it is, still, I think Venom's status as an anti-hero (at least) is safe due to the mass-appeal of that aspect of his character.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  4. #19
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    I'm sure at some point he'll be a villain again. See Sandman, Superior Spider-man, Invincible Iron Man, Sabretooth, Helmut Zemo for reference. Just a matter of time before the status quo strikes again.
    The only one I'll dispute is Invincible Iron Man . . . because I'm sure that's actually Infamous Iron Man.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #20
    Spectacular Member JTHM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    I'm sure at some point he'll be a villain again. See Sandman, Superior Spider-man, Invincible Iron Man, Sabretooth, Helmut Zemo for reference. Just a matter of time before the status quo strikes again.
    I don't know. Venom has a bit difference when compared to Sandman or Superior Spider-Man, and that is profitability. Venom's outings as an Anti-Hero or straight-up hero have almost always been profitable for Marvel than his time as a villain. You just have to look at his 90s run as an Anti-Hero (Which, if it was any other character, it should have failed straight-up due to how lame his stories were) or his current solo runs, which have been consistent and strong. Hell, not so long ago he outsold Spider-Man himself quite a few times (To the point Spider-Man's tie-in with Absolute Carnage actually lifted up the book's sales) Compare to Otto, who's own solo always struggled to keep up. (Talking about the recent Superior Spider-Man. Not the original when he took over Peter's book)

    I would argue Venom's status quo is being a Anti-Hero/Hero instead of a villain, not viceversa.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    I don't know. Venom has a bit difference when compared to Sandman or Superior Spider-Man, and that is profitability. Venom's outings as an Anti-Hero or straight-up hero have almost always been profitable for Marvel than his time as a villain. You just have to look at his 90s run as an Anti-Hero (Which, if it was any other character, it should have failed straight-up due to how lame his stories were) or his current solo runs, which have been consistent and strong. Hell, not so long ago he outsold Spider-Man himself quite a few times (To the point Spider-Man's tie-in with Absolute Carnage actually lifted up the book's sales) Compare to Otto, who's own solo always struggled to keep up. (Talking about the recent Superior Spider-Man. Not the original when he took over Peter's book)

    I would argue Venom's status quo is being a Anti-Hero/Hero instead of a villain, not viceversa.
    Somehow, that’s even sadder.

  7. #22
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    I think Venom stands better as an Anti-Hero, like Punisher. I mean, his whole reason for being a villain was his hate to Spider-Man, but after so much time, now in perspective, that was a pathetic excuse. I mean, Brock's reason were stupid because, if it wasn't Spider-Man, another hero would have captured the Sin-Eater. And the symbiote?, please, like Spider-Man had been the very first host to reject it because it didn't want to be attached to a parasite.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    I think Venom stands better as an Anti-Hero, like Punisher. I mean, his whole reason for being a villain was his hate to Spider-Man, but after so much time, now in perspective, that was a pathetic excuse. I mean, Brock's reason were stupid because, if it wasn't Spider-Man, another hero would have captured the Sin-Eater. And the symbiote?, please, like Spider-Man had been the very first host to reject it because it didn't want to be attached to a parasite.
    That arguably makes him better as a villain because of how petty the logic. It’s similar to why Joker’s origin story isn’t important: no excuse would be able to make up for the tragedies that he would later commit.

    The “Never My Fault” attitude that Venom had in the beginning helped him rationalize away any of his bad actions with kept him from reforming.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    I'm sure at some point he'll be a villain again. See Sandman, Superior Spider-man, Invincible Iron Man, Sabretooth, Helmut Zemo for reference. Just a matter of time before the status quo strikes again.
    This. No matter what, status quo always wins out. No matter how long a face-turn lasts, a revert heel-turn is always imminent. I was pissed with Sabretooth reverting since he finally got some good stories as an anti-hero and hadn't been credible as a villain in ages. But too bad, because he's reverted and very bit as pathetic a heel as ever. lol

    Juggernaut is another one. I think he joined the X-Men during Austin's run and was well-received but he went back to Jobbernaut villain eventually.

    Face-Turns just don't last for 97% of characters that started out in the Heel department.

  10. #25
    Spectacular Member JTHM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    This. No matter what, status quo always wins out. No matter how long a face-turn lasts, a revert heel-turn is always imminent. I was pissed with Sabretooth reverting since he finally got some good stories as an anti-hero and hadn't been credible as a villain in ages. But too bad, because he's reverted and very bit as pathetic a heel as ever. lol

    Juggernaut is another one. I think he joined the X-Men during Austin's run and was well-received but he went back to Jobbernaut villain eventually.

    Face-Turns just don't last for 97% of characters that started out in the Heel department.
    I think Venom (The current one at least) is one of the few examples of more prevalent Heel-Face turns in comics. Sure, after the 90s craze ended he returned to being a (rather pathetic) villain for Spider-Man and then that was followed by Gargan's run. But both of those runs of the character are not fondly remember by really anyone. Venom's best stories are with him as an Anti-Hero or a straight up Hero. So like, sure, he has returned to being a villain a few times, but that's not so different than, say, Hawkeye going crazy or Daredevil being possessed by a demon - It's a matter that comics at this point have pushed everyone back and forth in that door. And I still don't think Venom is comparable to Juggernaut or Sabretooth, because his level of success in the other side was bigger than those too (and even then, Juggernaut has been going back and forth between hero and villain for a while)

    I think something that Venom has an advantage in that sense is that his most iconic works are with him not as a villain. As someone else said. Venom's best moments (The Lethal Protector run, The Remender/Bunn run, the current Cates run) all had in common that they portrayed the character as a hero. Meanwhile his stories as a Spider-Man villain have not been remembered quite as fondly. He has a strong image when he is in that role, but at the same time, due to the kind of character Eddie himself is, the stories you can tell with him as a villain are not quite as compelling as those that have been told with him as a hero. He comes off as really one-dimensional: See one story with Venom in the villain role and you have seen them all.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    I'm sure at some point he'll be a villain again. See Sandman, Superior Spider-man, Invincible Iron Man, Sabretooth, Helmut Zemo for reference. Just a matter of time before the status quo strikes again.
    I don't think I'll say Eddie was a villain in the traditional sense. Yes he was the 'bad guy' but that stemmed from his own issues of blaming Spidey for his own failure. Combined with the pre-healed symbiote hatred at being rejected by a host.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voices From the Eyrie View Post
    Flash Thompson showed us that Venom can be a hero...

    ... But Eddie Brock can't be a hero and shouldn't be a hero. Despite the BS he spewed about innocents, he flat out murdered innocent people in his first appearances and never, ever was it necessary.

    Find a new host for the symbiote if you want Eddie to be a hero.
    Very concise. So much so, that it reminded me of this scene from...

    The Amazing Spider-Man #315

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