The most racist retcon in all of Marvel Comics history.

[BitParallel]

Fraction had a backup story in his Invincible Iron Man run that showed how she and Howard first met.

Right! I remember. Cute mini issue but still I think we don’t have any knowledge about Maria or he relationship with Tony. All we know is that she loved him unconditionally and was a good influence on him. We can’t find any panels of their interaction but Howard got tons.

Account created two days ago just to start a race-baiting thread. Unbelievable.

These are comic books we're talking about. If there's evidence that Maria was a Latina and Howard was Jewish, post the pages.

We barely know anything about their origin. We only know Howard was an alcoholic and abusive. Nothing is known about Maria. Her hair colour keeps changing and we can’t even guess their age properly. Early appearances they both seemed old, in Gillens run they were young (around the same age) and Bendis run Howard was old and she was young (implying a huge age gap). Inconsistent.

[chamber-music]

Sunspot would like a word

Sunspot has become more and more Caucasian looking over the years. Not sure if there is intent behind this or some artists/inkers just suck at portraying biracial people.

The world doesn't start and end with the United States. Just because they think certain people are "A" or "B" or whatever doesn't mean the rest of the world think like that.

In Europe, the Spanish are white.

Agreed. This sounds like some old fashioned American WASP xenophobia from when certain groups like the Italians or Irish were considered sub-white by fellow Caucasians.


In Europe I don't think I have ever heard Spanish people being described as anything other than white. Europe isn't just Western Europe and the people across the European continent have a diverse array of looks.

[Mutant God]

I think Maria was only Hispanic/Latino/Spanish (one of them I think) in the Ultimate Universe but I wouldn't mind it if she was one in 616 just as long as Tony is still a Stark biologically.

A controversial opinion, I don't mind "Snap" Wilson origins, a pimp who decides to turn his life around and become a hero/patriot sounds nice but I guess a social worker is better.

[Maria Stark]

I can't recall Tony's parents being a big deal in the Silver Age at least. It seems like most heroes didn't have parents to deal with. Spider-Man had the elderly Aunt May, Reed's were seldom mentioned at all nor Ben's. Sue and Johnny's mother died in a car accident and their father was in jail but would soon be killed by Skrulls when he did get out. We do start to get a few flashbacks of Tony's parents in Iron Man 104 and 105 in 1978 but his mother doesn't appear to have any distinguishing characteristics that would indicate a particular culture or nationality. As I said, she was such seldom seen character for decades and no writer assigned any particularly stand out trait other than being the unhappy wife of the tyrannical Howard Stark I suppose. Her maiden name, judging by this headstone, was Collins. So this "retcon" becomes less and less "racist".

Was that really the first time that her surname was named in continuity? It would be interesting to know that for sure, because when I started collecting Iron Man, after I moved to the U.S., I was told to avoid Kavanagh's run like a plague, because in addition to being bad, he got every single thing wrong about Iron Man . Eventually, I ended up reading these stories, and just assumed that this was another mistake, like all the mess with Meredith McCall's continuity.

My argument that Maria Stark is of Latin origin, comes from Iron Man Volume 3 issue # 30, published in 2000

[Maria Stark]

Account created two days ago just to start a race-baiting thread. Unbelievable.

These are comic books we're talking about. If there's evidence that Maria was a Latina and Howard was Jewish, post the pages.

Here it is, from Iron Man Volume 3 issue # 30, published in 2000.




About Howard Stark being of Jewish origin, I have no pages to show here. Of course, he could have been of Scottish origin, but, since the only person I have known personally with the surname Stark is Jewish, and the MCU Howard Stark is also, according to the Agent Carter TV show, I believe that to assume that, this is also true for the comics version, is perfectly plausible.

Just to clarify, I started this thread, because it is, something that matters to me and not, to “start a race-baiting thread”. You may well disagree and think that this is not important or relevant. I have no problem with that. But don't think that I accept being accused of dishonesty.

[Maria Stark]

Even if it's not a generalization on your part, I hope you realize just how freaking racist this entire mindset you described is. People can't be white based on how they speak or where they're born??? Sounds like some white purity bullshit. How about we let latin@ people, many of which self-identify as white, get to decide this instead of letting racist american stereotypes dictate how other people's race/ethnicity/nationality works? It's just weird to me that you created this thread under the notion that you're concerned about racism, but you are using a very racist measurement of what it means to be white to make a point.

You can be absolutely sure, that I do realize just how freaking racist this entire mindset is. I am perfectly aware of this, because I have lived it myself, for all six years that I lived in the United States. In fact, the main reason why my family returned to Brazil, was because my husband was getting absolutely ashamed of the way his friends treated me. If this is the predominant mindset throughout the United States, I obviously cannot say. I can only talk about my own experience.

[Maria Stark]

Maria Stark was not a Latina woman. There's an important distinction between someone being Latinx - which is a race - and of someone being of Hispanic origin, meaning that they have heritage belonging to a Spanish speaking country. You can be both, one, or neither; if Maria Stark was anything then she was a white Hispanic woman. I can definitely give you the idea that maybe Howard Stark was a Jewish man which is another nest of things entirely, and taking that away does admittedly potentially take something away from Tony, but it doesn't have to. Tony, from what I understand, has never been written as an overly religious character, whether that Religion is Judaism or something else entirely, and even if he was the change of his biological parents doesn't change the way that he personally, religiously identifies.

As someone who is ignorant of it, and has largely not followed Falcon up until he was introduced in the MCU, what's the deal with the Snap Wilson retcon?

Maria Stark was established as a latina woman in Iron Man Volume 3 issue # 30, published in 2000.



Now, about my comments on racism, as I explained, I spoke from personal experience. For six years, as soon as people around me came to know that I am Brazilian, I was either treated as someone inferior, or as if I were a very rare exotic animal. And, since i’m a woman, all the men looked at me as if I were some sort of an incurable sex addict. I absolutely guarantee you, that it was not, a fun experience.

[DrNewGod]

Account created two days ago just to start a race-baiting thread. Unbelievable.

These are comic books we're talking about. If there's evidence that Maria was a Latina and Howard was Jewish, post the pages.

A lot of assumption in what you're saying. All of us joined these forums at some point, and it takes time to get the vibe of a new place. More than one of us have offered opinions others found outrageous, usually without intent of watching anybody's head spin. Trolls definitely exist, but let's give the newb a chance and collect some more observations before jumping to conclusions.

[Will Evans]

Maria Stark was established as a latina woman in Iron Man Volume 3 issue # 30, published in 2000.



Now, about my comments on racism, as I explained, I spoke from personal experience. For six years, as soon as people around me came to know that I am Brazilian, I was either treated as someone inferior, or as if I were a very rare exotic animal. And, since i’m a woman, all the men looked at me as if I were some sort of an incurable sex addict. I absolutely guarantee you, that it was not, a fun experience.

Serious question.


Are people from or descended from Andorra or Monaco considered Latina or Hispanic?

[kevlon]

Serious question.


Are people from or descended from Andorra or Monaco considered Latina or Hispanic?

Monaco are more French, so no I guess.

Andorra is more difficult. They speak Catalan Spanish which is different from the bulk of Spanish speakers and I don't think they were Hispanic in the Spanish colonial sense.

[kevlon]

Maria Stark was established as a latina woman in Iron Man Volume 3 issue # 30, published in 2000.



Now, about my comments on racism, as I explained, I spoke from personal experience. For six years, as soon as people around me came to know that I am Brazilian, I was either treated as someone inferior, or as if I were a very rare exotic animal. And, since i’m a woman, all the men looked at me as if I were some sort of an incurable sex addict. I absolutely guarantee you, that it was not, a fun experience.

Sorry you were treated so badly. You should have come to London. Loads of Brazilians over here and they love it in London (at least the ones I know do!).

The maiden name is Carbonell, which is of Catalan origin. So she may have been Spanish or might have Spanish decedents.

The Spanish are white, regardless of what people in the USA think.

[MichaelC]

Here it is, from Iron Man Volume 3 issue # 30, published in 2000.




About Howard Stark being of Jewish origin, I have no pages to show here. Of course, he could have been of Scottish origin, but, since the only person I have known personally with the surname Stark is Jewish, and the MCU Howard Stark is also, according to the Agent Carter TV show, I believe that to assume that, this is also true for the comics version, is perfectly plausible.

Just to clarify, I started this thread, because it is, something that matters to me and not, to “start a race-baiting thread”. You may well disagree and think that this is not important or relevant. I have no problem with that. But don't think that I accept being accused of dishonesty.

I always thought Stark was partly Jewish and partly Spanish or Italian until the recent story came along and made him pure English, the blandest possible choice.

[Will Evans]

Always considered Tony half Italian-America on Maria’s side. While his dad Howard is more like Howard Hughes, white guy.

Meanwhile Steve Rogers is first generation Irish-American from his Irish immigrant parents.

[DrNewGod]

Always considered Tony half Italian-America on Maria’s side. While his dad Howard is more like Howard Hughes, white guy.

Meanwhile Steve Rogers is first generation Irish-American from his Irish immigrant parents.

Wouldn't that make him second generation? Unless you're saying his parents immigrated when he was a baby. Don't know if I've seen that in cannon.

[Will Evans]

Wouldn't that make him second generation? Unless you're saying his parents immigrated when he was a baby. Don't know if I've seen that in cannon.

Steve was born in the US. But his parents came over from Ireland.

I thought that made him first generation Irish-American.