The most racist retcon in all of Marvel Comics history.

[Ravin' Ray]

You know what? Presenting "Carbonell" as a priori evidence for a certain ethnicity isn't an absolute guarantee. Because that name could have entered Maria's genealogy by any means, such as marriage, assimilation, or Hispanization of an equivalent name in a related language. Such as the House of Borja of Spain achieving dominance in Renaissance Italy (culminating with the papacy of Alexander VI) and using the name Borgia there. Granted, the simpler explanation is perhaps the right one, but it's not the only one.

[Panic]

"Carbonell", as far as I can see from a brief look on the web, is a surname that's been kicking around the British Isles in one form or another since 1066. Ancestry.co.uk has a John Carbonell, born 1731 in Westminster, London, for example, and there are several others.

[Mike_Murdock]

On top of that, someone with the last name of Armstrong could be just as ethnically hispanic and just not have that surname because of patrilineal name succession.

[BitParallel]

Hello Mr. Buziek. Thanks for taking the time to post here. Let me clarify, why I started this thread.

I created this thread, to vent my outrage at the retcon that replaced Tony Stark's Latin mother with a white woman. Because, this is a reticon that I consider to be racist. And, it's something that affects me personally, for objective reasons.

As a Latin American woman, born in Brazil, married to an American, I went through several extremely embarrassing situations in the six years that we lived in the United States, since, according to the standards of your country, we are considered a mixed race couple, and because of that, not deserving of equal treatment. Things got so offensive over time, that we packed up and went back to Brazil.

Well, we have a nine year old son, who has been a huge fan of Iron Man, practically, since he was a little baby. In my process of researching the character, I eventually read Iron Man Volume 3 issue # 30, where Tony's mother's maiden name is stated as Carbonnel, which, is a surname of Spanish origin. Even though as a Brazilian, IÂ’m not from a Spanish-speaking country, since here we speak Portuguese, we are still, all latinos, and my son was delighted to know, that he is like Tony Stark. half-Latino, half-American. Well, not anymore.

I know that this happened a few years ago, and I was outraged by it at that time as well. If IÂ’m outraged again now, itÂ’s because, reading the article found at the link below, made this feeling of indignation hit me again in spades.

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-10-ways-i...ver-the-years/

Of course, I shouldn't take this kind of thing so personally, but I did anyway, and complained about it, here on this forum.

I have received on this thread since then, a variety of responses, ranging from those made by the inevitable trolls, accusing me of ignorance or intellectual dishonesty, to those who were quite enlightening, which I must say, are among the majority.

One of these responses showed me that, possibly, the first time Tony's mother's maiden name appeared in the comics, was during Terry Kavanagh's run, which precedes Joe QuesadaÂ’s run. I was aware of this, but I read these stories out of order, as I was advised to avoid reading Kavanagh's run, because the writer made a complete mess with the character's continuity. So, I simply assumed that this was another one of his mistakes.

Well, I have no problem with being corrected, and I believe that itÂ’s essential, to always be accurately informed. So, I ask you, who has a huge knowledge of comics, was Terry Kavanagh really the first writer to give Tony's mother a maiden name?

I, for one, HATES the adoption retcon, for different reasons though. I find it so disrespectful that out of all the superheroes, marvel chose Tony. He has one of the worst fathers in marvel. What kind of adoption story is that? I mean it perpetuates the „adoptive parents ain’t ****“ stigma .. and all of it was for Arno aka their biological son. It is so messed up. Needless to mention, how Tony had an automatic bond with his birth mom, so unrealistic. I am adopted and trust me, my adoptive mom and dad are my real parents. So yes this retcon was so ridiculous.

But, putting my personal feelings aside. This retcon makes no sense in-universe, so I’d advice you to repeat the same energy u had for Kavanagh's run. The adoption plot is a complete mess when it comes to continuity. It literally makes zero sense.

1. How Tony is the spitting image of Howard Stark.
2. Anthony is Howard‘s middle name ( which is coincidentally a Stark Family tradition, to repeat the names in the family)
3. Tony acknowledging his addictive genes are hereditary (From Howard)
4. Arnos and Tonys ages. If Arno is 5 years older than Tony, what happened to the decoy plan? It took Howard 5 years to find a replacement?
5. Was Arno in touch with his biological parents? According to Bendis and Gillen, is a no. But Slott said yes.

It’s honestly a mess ngl

Lastly, in all aus but 616, Tony is the Starks biological son. And if he was to have a sibling.. Gregory Stark is what matters. Most of Iron Man fans don’t acknowledge the adoption story, so ignore it.

[Kurt Busiek]

So, I ask you, who has a huge knowledge of comics, was Terry Kavanagh really the first writer to give Tony's mother a maiden name?

I don't know. I read that run during my research, but I don't remember whether her maiden name came up or not.

kdb

[Triniking1234]

Are you kidding me? Or did you just read the part that interests you, and ignored the part where, literally, in the same caption box, it is written that Carbonell is Tony's mother's maiden name?

Boy ... No wonder you use a supervillain as an avatar.

We already discussed earlier in the thread that "Carbonell" isn't exclusively a Spanish word. Also your name doesn't determine your race/ethnicity.

Quit reaching.

[Triniking1234]

I, for one, HATES the adoption retcon, for different reasons though. I find it so disrespectful that out of all the superheroes, marvel chose Tony. He has one of the worst fathers in marvel. What kind of adoption story is that? I mean it perpetuates the „adoptive parents ain’t ****“ stigma .. and all of it was for Arno aka their biological son. It is so messed up. Needless to mention, how Tony had an automatic bond with his birth mom, so unrealistic. I am adopted and trust me, my adoptive mom and dad are my real parents. So yes this retcon was so ridiculous.

But, putting my personal feelings aside. This retcon makes no sense in-universe, so I’d advice you to repeat the same energy u had for Kavanagh's run. The adoption plot is a complete mess when it comes to continuity. It literally makes zero sense.

1. How Tony is the spitting image of Howard Stark.
2. Anthony is Howard‘s middle name ( which is coincidentally a Stark Family tradition, to repeat the names in the family)
3. Tony acknowledging his addictive genes are hereditary (From Howard)
4. Arnos and Tonys ages. If Arno is 5 years older than Tony, what happened to the decoy plan? It took Howard 5 years to find a replacement?
5. Was Arno in touch with his biological parents? According to Bendis and Gillen, is a no. But Slott said yes.

It’s honestly a mess ngl

Lastly, in all aus but 616, Tony is the Starks biological son. And if he was to have a sibling.. Gregory Stark is what matters. Most of Iron Man fans don’t acknowledge the adoption story, so ignore it.

I think Gillen was going for a bait and switch and keep Tony as Maria's and Howard's biological son but Marvel just let Bendis do whatever he wanted as usual.

[XPac]

I, for one, HATES the adoption retcon, for different reasons though. I find it so disrespectful that out of all the superheroes, marvel chose Tony. He has one of the worst fathers in marvel. What kind of adoption story is that? I mean it perpetuates the „adoptive parents ain’t ****“ stigma .. and all of it was for Arno aka their biological son. It is so messed up. Needless to mention, how Tony had an automatic bond with his birth mom, so unrealistic. I am adopted and trust me, my adoptive mom and dad are my real parents. So yes this retcon was so ridiculous.

But, putting my personal feelings aside. This retcon makes no sense in-universe, so I’d advice you to repeat the same energy u had for Kavanagh's run. The adoption plot is a complete mess when it comes to continuity. It literally makes zero sense.

1. How Tony is the spitting image of Howard Stark.
2. Anthony is Howard‘s middle name ( which is coincidentally a Stark Family tradition, to repeat the names in the family)
3. Tony acknowledging his addictive genes are hereditary (From Howard)
4. Arnos and Tonys ages. If Arno is 5 years older than Tony, what happened to the decoy plan? It took Howard 5 years to find a replacement?
5. Was Arno in touch with his biological parents? According to Bendis and Gillen, is a no. But Slott said yes.

It’s honestly a mess ngl

Lastly, in all aus but 616, Tony is the Starks biological son. And if he was to have a sibling.. Gregory Stark is what matters. Most of Iron Man fans don’t acknowledge the adoption story, so ignore it.

I would have less issue with the retcon if it it wasn't so boring.

If Starks parents were at least interesting, I might be able to forgive it not entirely making sense. If his real dad turned out to be Kang or something like that, at least it would have felt like a big deal.

[MichaelC]

That's a good point. Making his dad The Mandarin or Doctor Doom or Kang or anyone interesting would have been cool. Instead it's some completely forgettable Hydra goon. It's just like...why? I remember the mystery when the story first started was intriguing. Then the actual answer came out and it was just about the most anticlimactic, vanilla answer imaginable.

[Iron Maiden]

I don't know. I read that run during my research, but I don't remember whether her maiden name came up or not.

kdb

The one thing I did find (which I posted several pages ago here) was that in Terry Kavanaugh's Iron Man #322, her maiden name appears on the tombstone. And no, Collins is not a middle name. So the Carbonell could be explained I suppose Howard were the second husband (rich widow maybe?)

That's a good point. Making his dad The Mandarin or Doctor Doom or Kang or anyone interesting would have been cool. Instead it's some completely forgettable Hydra goon. It's just like...why? I remember the mystery when the story first started was intriguing. Then the actual answer came out and it was just about the most anticlimactic, vanilla answer imaginable.

That would make for one crazy addition to the tradition of Iron Man/Doctor Doom time travel stories. My head canon is that Doom (along with Reed and Ben)is in his early 40s and Stark is in his mid to late 30's. Still with time travel it's possible. We found out a couple of years ago In Fearless Defenders that Doom and Morgan le Fey's time travel affair resulted in a daughter that when brought forward to the present is older than her father.

[MichaelC]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind Stark being adopted at all if only they had made his father turn out to be a major figure like The Mandarin or Doom. Why a generic Hydra goon? I can't even remember his name off the top of my head, he was so forgettable. And the end of Bendis' run wasn't all THAT long ago.

[Triniking1234]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind Stark being adopted at all if only they had made his father turn out to be a major figure like The Mandarin or Doom. Why a generic Hydra goon? I can't even remember his name off the top of my head, he was so forgettable. And the end of Bendis' run wasn't all THAT long ago.

Chuck Austen.

[Mutant God]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind Stark being adopted at all if only they had made his father turn out to be a major figure like The Mandarin or Doom.

How about Wolverine or Captain America lol

Why a generic Hydra goon? I can't even remember his name off the top of my head, he was so forgettable. And the end of Bendis' run wasn't all THAT long ago.

Yeah they could of at least made him an inventor/engineer with some connection to Howard (cheated partner, rival, mentor/student)

[Tony Stark]

I thought what would be ok is that he was still Howard’s son biologically, but he had Tony with another woman. That would be why Howard was so mean to Tony as he didn’t have him with the love of his life Maria. Therefore that would be why Maria loved Tony so much and treated him like he was hers partly because Howard was such an ******* to Tony.

[BitParallel]

I think Gillen was going for a bait and switch and keep Tony as Maria's and Howard's biological son but Marvel just let Bendis do whatever he wanted as usual.

I read somewhere that it was an editorial mandate. At least bring us Gregory uk

I would have less issue with the retcon if it it wasn't so boring.

If Starks parents were at least interesting, I might be able to forgive it not entirely making sense. If his real dad turned out to be Kang or something like that, at least it would have felt like a big deal.

Why is Tony luck always so terrible with fathers xD .. well recently it’s mephisto wtf

The one thing I did find (which I posted several pages ago here) was that in Terry Kavanaugh's Iron Man #322, her maiden name appears on the tombstone. And no, Collins is not a middle name. So the Carbonell could be explained I suppose Howard were the second husband (rich widow maybe?)

I thought Collins is her middle name oh noo

This is why marvel should have explored Tonys maternal family and his mom instead of giving me a new set of parents and a new origin. I would have been more interesting.